Has "Peak OIl" peaked?
09-25-12, 05:07 PM
#26
Senior Member
Of course one problem is that people are able to grasp the concept of peak oil, but unable or unwilling to adopt personal changes that would make the peak less threatening.
Somehow, though, I seem to be able to deal with people who ignore the problem rather than people who adopt a half-measure. For example, replacing their gas guzzler with a hybrid or electric vehicle. The thought of building an infrastructure (like say hydrogen...) that hadn't been thought through sufficiently.... is really frightening.
If you throw all you eggs in a basket and then discover that basket has a large whole...
IMHO, a good solution for Peak OIl would be to invest heavily in building more densely populated cities and installing a good transportation infrastructure would really help too. Moving the population to more vegetarian diets. Investing in technology to ensure that not every solution is based on plastics or other petroleum derived products...
These would be steps in the right direction.
Somehow, though, I seem to be able to deal with people who ignore the problem rather than people who adopt a half-measure. For example, replacing their gas guzzler with a hybrid or electric vehicle. The thought of building an infrastructure (like say hydrogen...) that hadn't been thought through sufficiently.... is really frightening.
If you throw all you eggs in a basket and then discover that basket has a large whole...
IMHO, a good solution for Peak OIl would be to invest heavily in building more densely populated cities and installing a good transportation infrastructure would really help too. Moving the population to more vegetarian diets. Investing in technology to ensure that not every solution is based on plastics or other petroleum derived products...
These would be steps in the right direction.
09-25-12, 06:42 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: I'm in Helena Montana again.
Posts: 1,402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
North Dakota and Montana have more oil than Saudi Arabia. The problem is it takes a lot of work to get the oil out of the tar sands. The nation will go for that before it will abandon oil. That is a whole lot of buried energy.
There are gigantic coal reserves in the USA that will last us hundreds of years. The natural gas reserves are thought to be the biggest in the world.
All of those sources are enough to power the USA for a very long time. That doesn't mean it will be cheap. It just means it exists.
There are several states that have enough consistent wind to power the nation if there were enough wind farms. The desert Southwest could power half of the nation with solar power if it were possible to cover enough ground with solar panel farms.
With your head not in the sand how is it that you don't know about these things?
So has peak oil peaked? It depends on who you ask.
WOW, Head in the sand much?There are gigantic coal reserves in the USA that will last us hundreds of years. The natural gas reserves are thought to be the biggest in the world.
All of those sources are enough to power the USA for a very long time. That doesn't mean it will be cheap. It just means it exists.
There are several states that have enough consistent wind to power the nation if there were enough wind farms. The desert Southwest could power half of the nation with solar power if it were possible to cover enough ground with solar panel farms.
With your head not in the sand how is it that you don't know about these things?
So has peak oil peaked? It depends on who you ask.
09-25-12, 06:57 PM
#28
Senior Member
North Dakota and Montana have more oil than Saudi Arabia. The problem is it takes a lot of work to get the oil out of the tar sands. The nation will go for that before it will abandon oil. That is a whole lot of buried energy.
There are gigantic coal reserves in the USA that will last us hundreds of years. The natural gas reserves are thought to be the biggest in the world.
All of those sources are enough to power the USA for a very long time. That doesn't mean it will be cheap. It just means it exists.
There are several states that have enough consistent wind to power the nation if there were enough wind farms. The desert Southwest could power half of the nation with solar power if it were possible to cover enough ground with solar panel farms.
With your head not in the sand how is it that you don't know about these things?
So has peak oil peaked? It depends on who you ask.
There are gigantic coal reserves in the USA that will last us hundreds of years. The natural gas reserves are thought to be the biggest in the world.
All of those sources are enough to power the USA for a very long time. That doesn't mean it will be cheap. It just means it exists.
There are several states that have enough consistent wind to power the nation if there were enough wind farms. The desert Southwest could power half of the nation with solar power if it were possible to cover enough ground with solar panel farms.
With your head not in the sand how is it that you don't know about these things?
So has peak oil peaked? It depends on who you ask.
EDIT; Hey, have I got a deal for you, if you are looking for lakefront properties...
A steal of a deal, money's to be made on re-sale or you can live there and enjoy the coming good times... 
Last edited by 350htrr; 09-25-12 at 07:44 PM.
09-25-12, 08:56 PM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 214
Bikes: 2010 Wabi Lightning, 2014 Brompton S2L-X
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-worlds-needs/
And combine sun power with wind power, we have the best energy source. The whole country of Denmark is getting its 20% of energy from wind turbines alone.
And combine sun power with wind power, we have the best energy source. The whole country of Denmark is getting its 20% of energy from wind turbines alone.
09-25-12, 08:57 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 214
Bikes: 2010 Wabi Lightning, 2014 Brompton S2L-X
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
IMO the solution is right above us every day, sun power, nobody controls it (can't be withheld), doesn't pollute, can already supply most of any house requirements, can/could charge up the electric car, and that's just now... 10 more years of development and bingo, 90% of out energy requirements met, no major change of infrastructure required...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-worlds-needs/
And combine sun power with wind power, we have the best energy source. The whole country of Denmark is getting its 20% of energy from wind turbines alone.
09-26-12, 08:59 AM
#32
Sophomoric Member
Most likely "solution" IMO is adoption of some kind of liquid gasoline-like fuel made from fracked natural gas. This would (temporarily) reduce both costs and greenhous gas emissions.
Meanwhile, even some oil company executives are saying that drilling in the Arctic is too risky for the environment. Since we KNOW that oil companies don't care about the environment, they must have some other agenda when they say this.
Meanwhile, even some oil company executives are saying that drilling in the Arctic is too risky for the environment. Since we KNOW that oil companies don't care about the environment, they must have some other agenda when they say this.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
09-26-12, 02:14 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Most likely "solution" IMO is adoption of some kind of liquid gasoline-like fuel made from fracked natural gas. This would (temporarily) reduce both costs and greenhous gas emissions.
Meanwhile, even some oil company executives are saying that drilling in the Arctic is too risky for the environment. Since we KNOW that oil companies don't care about the environment, they must have some other agenda when they say this.
Meanwhile, even some oil company executives are saying that drilling in the Arctic is too risky for the environment. Since we KNOW that oil companies don't care about the environment, they must have some other agenda when they say this.
09-26-12, 06:50 PM
#34
In the right lane
Thread Starter
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-worlds-needs/
And combine sun power with wind power, we have the best energy source. The whole country of Denmark is getting its 20% of energy from wind turbines alone.
We’d have enough energy to power the world. At least in theory. A new study published this week in Nature Climate Change finds that there’s enough wind potential both on the Earth’s surface and up in the atmosphere to power human civilization 100 times over. Right now, humans use about 18 terawatts of power worldwide. And, technically, the study found, we could extract about 400 terawatts of wind power from the Earth’s surface and 1,800 terawatts of power from the upper atmosphere.
There's also ample room for energy savings, particularly if the grid does not have to support powering automobiles.
09-27-12, 09:35 AM
#35
Sophomoric Member
There's been a lot of pushback from environmentalist because they think windmills are ugly. I think they're prettier than the average coal stacks or nuclear cooling towers, or offshore drilling rigs. I think it was stupid to propose offshore windimills in scenic areas like Cape Cod or the Manitou Islands of Lake Michigan. But windmills might look great in Boston Harbor or offshore from the Chicago skyline.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
09-27-12, 05:36 PM
#36
In the right lane
Thread Starter
This touches on a good point and also suggests why we need to act on this Peak Oil notion. Petroleum products deliver an enormous benefit to our society.... some of which would really damage out way of living.
It's a resource we ought not be wasting.
It's a resource we ought not be wasting.
09-27-12, 05:51 PM
#37
Senior Member
My understanding of the concept of peak oil is that it is the point where demand exceeds supply. We have found, and are depleting, most of the cheap oil, but as prices rise there is more incentive to look for more but this new oil costs a lot to extract. Some countries try to moderate demand by taxing the heck out of gasoline and having good alternatives such as rail and in some cities, bike lanes. Demand is increasing in the emerging economies of the world partly because for billions of our species, the one material thing that shows the world that they have"made it" is thecar.
09-27-12, 08:15 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
https://www.stoptheache.org/about.html
09-28-12, 10:15 AM
#39
Sophomoric Member
Plastics and carbon fiber are important to our economy and vital to many industries. Plastic gets a bad rap from environmentalists. But look at it this way: the carbon that goes into plastics is "locked up." It won't get into the atmosphere for thousands of years, if it ever will. IMO it's better to put that carbon into plastic than to put it into the air that protects our planet from solar radiation.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
09-28-12, 12:51 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
Plastics and carbon fiber are important to our economy and vital to many industries. Plastic gets a bad rap from environmentalists. But look at it this way: the carbon that goes into plastics is "locked up." It won't get into the atmosphere for thousands of years, if it ever will. IMO it's better to put that carbon into plastic than to put it into the air that protects our planet from solar radiation.
09-28-12, 09:03 PM
#41
In the right lane
Thread Starter
Plastics and carbon fiber are important to our economy and vital to many industries. Plastic gets a bad rap from environmentalists. But look at it this way: the carbon that goes into plastics is "locked up." It won't get into the atmosphere for thousands of years, if it ever will. IMO it's better to put that carbon into plastic than to put it into the air that protects our planet from solar radiation.
What about the Great Pacific Garbage Patch and other such swirling masses of plastic?
What we need to stop is the abuse of these materials for products like one-way water bottles. That manufacture should be criminalized. And I suspect it is this type of product that is gumming up areas of the Pacific Ocean.
09-28-12, 10:35 PM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seville, Spain
Posts: 4,403
Bikes: Brompton M6R, mountain bikes, Circe Omnis+ tandem
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 146 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
There are petroleuim based products, including plastic, that are appropriately manufactured. For example, I am looking now at a Rubbermaid container that holds some household equipment. It's likely to last 25 years and at that time could be effectively "down-cycled." In the future I expect some plastic products to evolve that could be complete "recycled" with minimal environmental cost. For example, I recycle my Rubbermaid box and it becomes another Rubbermaid box. That's true recycling... but I'm not sure we are there yet.
What we need to stop is the abuse of these materials for products like one-way water bottles. That manufacture should be criminalized. And I suspect it is this type of product that is gumming up areas of the Pacific Ocean.
What we need to stop is the abuse of these materials for products like one-way water bottles. That manufacture should be criminalized. And I suspect it is this type of product that is gumming up areas of the Pacific Ocean.
Last edited by Ekdog; 09-28-12 at 10:38 PM.
09-28-12, 11:43 PM
#43
Sophomoric Member
What about the Great Pacific Garbage Patch and other such swirling masses of plastic?
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
09-29-12, 12:59 AM
#44
bragi
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: seattle, WA
Posts: 2,911
Bikes: LHT
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I cannot find the reference, but the general consensus seems that we reached the peak of conventional oil production between 2006-2008. There is also an article out about the cost of getting and processing oil. In the 1950's the ratio was better than 3:1 today it is much closer to 1:1, in other words, it costs nearly as much to get oil out of the ground as to what it is worth. The investment to get to much of the "new" oil supplies is staggering and cost prohibitive.
Aaron
Aaron
I think the new fossil fuel resources - natural gas and oil from tar sands and shale- are a costly, damaging reprieve, but one that's necessary. We need more time to develop energy resources that that sustainable and don't contribute to warming. I just hope we're not too greedy and stupid to take advantage of this extra decade or so.
09-29-12, 05:15 AM
#45
Pedaled too far.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Posts: 12,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
I'm not quite sure I agree with this one; if the production cost-to-yield ratio were really 1:1, wouldn't that mean that oil would be so expensive as to make it useless as a fuel?
I think the new fossil fuel resources - natural gas and oil from tar sands and shale- are a costly, damaging reprieve, but one that's necessary. We need more time to develop energy resources that that sustainable and don't contribute to warming. I just hope we're not too greedy and stupid to take advantage of this extra decade or so.
I think the new fossil fuel resources - natural gas and oil from tar sands and shale- are a costly, damaging reprieve, but one that's necessary. We need more time to develop energy resources that that sustainable and don't contribute to warming. I just hope we're not too greedy and stupid to take advantage of this extra decade or so.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London
09-29-12, 06:32 AM
#46
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
14 Posts
I'm not quite sure I agree with this one; if the production cost-to-yield ratio were really 1:1, wouldn't that mean that oil would be so expensive as to make it useless as a fuel?
I think the new fossil fuel resources - natural gas and oil from tar sands and shale- are a costly, damaging reprieve, but one that's necessary. We need more time to develop energy resources that that sustainable and don't contribute to warming. I just hope we're not too greedy and stupid to take advantage of this extra decade or so.
I think the new fossil fuel resources - natural gas and oil from tar sands and shale- are a costly, damaging reprieve, but one that's necessary. We need more time to develop energy resources that that sustainable and don't contribute to warming. I just hope we're not too greedy and stupid to take advantage of this extra decade or so.
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
09-29-12, 07:06 AM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 378
Bikes: Schwinn Trailwise, Surly Pugsley
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I doubt that we will know if we have passed a 'peak oil' point for some time. It sure seems like we've passed that point, but there's all sorts of drilling oppourtunities up in the Artic and over in Siberia. There's deep water fields that may be discovered yet. There's also a debate among geologists as to how oil is formed. We know that oil comes from ancient fossil deposits, but there is also a school of thought that says oil is also formed deep in the earth under natural processes as well. The only thing I think can be said with certainity is that the price of a gallon of gas is only going to go up!
09-29-12, 09:51 AM
#48
Sophomoric Member
I think the new fossil fuel resources - natural gas and oil from tar sands and shale- are a costly, damaging reprieve, but one that's necessary. We need more time to develop energy resources that that sustainable and don't contribute to warming. I just hope we're not too greedy and stupid to take advantage of this extra decade or so.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
09-29-12, 07:29 PM
#49
Pedaled too far.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Posts: 12,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
Peak Wood
Perhaps some lessons can be learned from an earlier fossil fuel crisis, when the forests of Europe had been cut down and people turned to alternative energy sources, wind power and peat.
After Peak Wood
After Peak Wood
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London
09-29-12, 09:24 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 378
Bikes: Schwinn Trailwise, Surly Pugsley
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Perhaps some lessons can be learned from an earlier fossil fuel crisis, when the forests of Europe had been cut down and people turned to alternative energy sources, wind power and peat.
After Peak Wood
After Peak Wood