Roody

You have plenty of time to write a long rant about something as innocuous as baby carriers. How is it that you lack the time to research the matter on your own? It's arrogant to presume that others will freely spend their time just to satisfy your idle curiosity.

If you are genuinely interested in discussing the sorry state of public transit (or whatever), my suggestion is to start a new thread rather than dragging this thread off into the swamp. This forum could use some new threads!

PlanoFuji

Arrogant? That is hilarious coming from you.

I am not the one who brought transit (and walking and cabs) into this. An since you either failed to read or comprehend my earlier posts, I DID SEARCH for infant carriers and could find none for any child under the age of 9-12 months. WHICH IS WHY I ASKED HOW FOLKS WHO ACTUALLY TRANSPORT INFANTS ON BIKES DO IT. Clear enough for you Rudy? Shame you couldn't keep your earlier promise to me--guess your desire to rant overcame you.

B. Carfree

I also have young friends who are in this situation. In fact, since the biological grandparents live on the other side of a pond (the Pacific Ocean) my wife and I are stand-in grandparents. We have our "grand-daughter" two to five days per week because her pregnant mother is finishing college and her father works full time. The population density in this city is pretty close to that which the average American experiences. The bus service is perhaps slightly better, but we don't use it with or without our "grand-daughter". We bring her to physician appointments (her mother meets us there), we bring her shopping and to other errands. In effect, we are part-time parents and it's just not much different now than it was back in the early '90s.

As realtors are wont to say, it's all about location. We live in a neighborhood that is a convenient walk from everything except the regional hospital. If we needed the hospital, we would take a cab, ambulance or the bus, depending on the nature of the need. Several grocery stores are within a mile, and there are many more within three miles. A "mall" is within half a mile. A wide variety of medical practitioners are within a mile and a half of our front door. I would say that approximately half the people in this county have a similar location with respect to those amenities. The other half has chosen to live further out in the suburbs and spend more time in their cars.

However, if a person is coming to this from a perspective in which walking a mile or three seems daunting and time consuming, then raising an infant without a car would likely seem to be a bridge too far. We view the walking as quality time spent with out "grand-daughter", at least when she doesn't fall asleep during the journey (always after the places along the river where the ducks hang out; she loves ducks).

You're beginning to remind me of some folks with whom I shared a former commune site. I set up a water system to service my yurt. They insisted it couldn't be done. I informed them that not only could it be done, but I had been using it for six months when they made this statement. My functioning water system did not change their faith that one could not be implemented.

Roody

Did you even look at the five links that storckm obviously spent a lot of time finding for you? Several show children considerably less than 12months being transported on bikes, and even instructions for building carriers for very young infants. Was it rude of her to help you, or were you the rude one who never thanked or even acknowledged her efforts? You asked out of idle curiosity, a number of people (including myself) used their own precious time to quench your idle curiosity, and you gave everyone a hard time for it. What a nerve.

Roody

Good advice about walking and taking the train. I agree with your opinion that cars are not particularly safe for children. Here's some supporting evidence from a public health expert. I haven't read it, but it looks like something you might be interested in:

https://www.toronto.ca/health/hphe/pd...ion_burden.pdf

PlanoFuji

Yes I did, but they were all home made devices, nothing commercial. And several of those designs looked less then secure (the one mounted to a normal bicycle which actually appears to be carrying a child under 9 months). The real question is did you even bother to read what he wrote; "I know I've seen pictures of infants in bicycle seats (see here, here, here, here, and here), but I haven't been able to find any models designed for infants." I'm guessing you and BCarfree just want to start an argument... You both clearly love making assumptions. Shame you couldn't keep your promise...

PlanoFuji

I haven't said it couldn't be done. I said, that the layout of much of the US makes walking an impractical option for most new parents--not because a mile or three is difficult but because most of the distances for key trips (family, doctors, etc) are beyond that distance. And if you care to argue that point start another thread, as I said before I am not the one who brought that argument into a thread about babies and bicycles.

Roody

I think that there does not exist a commercial baby seat that will carry your imaginary child. You might just have to accept that fact. Evidently you are also unable or unwilling to build your own. Thats ok, i probably couldnt either.

That's probably why people tried to steer your thoughts to taking the bus or walking with said non-existent child. But then you said it's impossible to walk or take a bus where you live. That's Unfortunate, but i guess its the cards you have been dealt. Maybe you could just use your SUV to schlepp the kid around? Not all neighborhoods (or people) are cut out to for carfree living, especially when one is raising a young pretend family. There should be no shame in that.

I'm being a little sarcastic, but seriously.... If your bike is your only means of transportation, you will be severely limited. I think most carfree cyclists use transit, cabs, and walking, if only in extreme cases. As you suggest, there are some sparsely populated areas where alternatives to bikes do not exist. I would refuse to live in one of those areas. But if I did live there, I would probably maintain a car to use as my emergency backup option. Which I believe is exactly what you do.

There are many, many threads here about "Plan B" if you have any further questions about your real or imaginary situations.

(I notice you still haven't thanked the people who tried to answer your question.)

PlanoFuji

Sanctimony and sarcasm all wrapped up in a nice little bow of rude and uncivil behaviour. How often have I read your posts complaining about people wasting space in threads talking about topics other than the thread was started for... Guess it is okay if you do it.

You appear correct about at least one fact; there doesn't appear to be any commercial means of carrying an infant on a standard bike. So the young couple is left with three choices; purchase a specialized cargo bike like a bakfiet, move to a location with better transit (and change doctors), or obtain the use of a car. They don't know which they are going to choose yet, they have about six months to make that decision. Feel free to continue your derision about your assumptions of why I asked the question in the first place; I am sure it makes you feel better.

Roody

Why don't you let them use your car on the rare occasions when they might need one?

PlanoFuji

Yes, that is one option (after all my car doesn't leave my garage all that often), but they would need to obtain car insurance for at least one of them, probably the mother or let me drive them. As I said, they haven't decided yet which way they will go.

Roody

It sounds like you have taken them under your wing to some extent. That should be helpful.

it sounds weird that they need their own insurance in order to drive your car. In my state, insurance goes with the car, not the driver. This certainly makes it easier to borrow vehicles.

alhedges

This is a ridiculous claim. Most people live in suburbs. If they are lucky, they'll have access to public transportation; usually they won't, and will be lucky to have sidewalks. And even if they do have public transport, it may not take them to where their doctor is, since except in a few areas, public transport is particularly focused on getting suburbanites downtown.

IAMAMRA

WOW, What the heck happened here??

Just for the record, we have NO taxi, NO buses, and with our insurance we have to go about 45 min. drive to have him see the doctor. In fact it will be a 30-40 min drive(in other direction) to give birth. While I try and do my best car free, my wifes work takes her all over the state, and I was just curious about options.

PlanoFuji

Sadly so was I. Apparently that isn't allowed.


I do not think trying to take (or expecting her to pedal) on a bike that distance while in labor is a good long term survival choice for her husband!

Best of luck with whatever you end up doing!

Roody

If you "abandon" your thread for a while, others will take it in new directions.

As a matter of courtesy, we all need to remember that people "donate" their precious time to answer questions in Internet forums. Usually they do this because they want to help a person with a real problem or question. Sometimes they feel hoodwinked if they subsequently discover that the OP was "just curious." It helps if everybody can be upfront about what they want to know, and why they want to know it.

IAMAMRA

i wasn't curious simply because I wanted to know for fun. I was curios because I was wondering about some options.

wphamilton

I would be very reluctant to take a child under 12 months on a bike, and look for other options. Yet I have to temper that because it seems a lot like something I learned decades ago. I was attending a university and there was a large population of Chinese families, and some of them took bicycles everywhere. I don't mean to stereotype, just saying that my experience was around Chinese people. I didn't know anything about car-free biking and I asked about how they handled trips with the babies, the weather, the jarring, the danger, because it all seemed extremely dangerous. I was told that they'd been doing that for generations and knew how to protect the child - it was natural to them and proof was in the practice. Well that's pretty inarguable and while I still didn't know how, I had to accept that it couldn't be anything but true.

This question now seems a lot like that was, maybe exactly like that. It's no doubt possible to do it safely, without being any great burden in fact, but I'm still not clear on just how.

I-Like-To-Bike

Probably the same way people managed to ride without serious injury before the days of helmet promotion, and incessant over protective (and counter-productive) nannyism.

Roody

I'm inclined to think that it's safe to carry little babies on bikes using common sense and good equipment like an infant car seat. But I can see that people are reluctant to try it because they don't really know that it's safe. It would be a great research project for an engineering outfit to come up with a carrying system and test it with some of those crash test dummies. I don't suppose that's going to happen anytime soon! Mythbusters maybe?

I can't prove it, but I strongly believe that the shaking and jolting of a bike ride would not be harmful to even a very young infant. This could probably be tested pretty easily with accelerometers or something like that.

Roody

Thank you, glad to hear it.

PlanoFuji

So glad YOU APPROVE of the OP's motives... Which btw he stated in the beginning...