I just had the amazing pleasure of drafting an electric bus here in Spokane. The city's running a trial on zero-emissions transportation (and since almost all our electric comes from The Dam, it's actually pretty close to zero emissions).

More info here:Inlander

I usually avoid drafting busses because exhaust and noise makes it so unpleasant, but this silent, smellless beauty was perfect for catching a little energy boost behind. I certainly hope these are in Spokane's future!

Isn't some of your electricity produced by the nuclear reactor near Richland, WA by the Columbia Generating Station?

... which IS "zero emissions..." for now....

But don't be a killjoy. Our entire electric grid is interconnected. I think that all of us bear some of the responsibility for nuclear power use. Transit electrification might prompt better wind and solar power development if the two are connected politically. On the other hand, it might drive demand for nukes.

I think we need to solve carbon issues first, then ramp down nukes.

Electric busses -- quieter, not smelly (on the outside, at least!). What's not to like? An ideal application for the technology.

There is no "zero-emission". A more accurate term (which I coined) is "displaced emission".

As someone who used to work in the nuclear industry....

Solar and wind are fine, though the economic benefits are still up in the air, since many projects these days are still heavily subsidized. But the larger issue is that both wind and solar are variable, and we do need a "base load" of power production. The wind doesn't always blow, and the sun isn't always shining, especially at night.

With regards to "zero emissions" you have to factor the whole life cycle. Even solar and wind have emissions during the manufacturing process. Nuclear has emissions during manufacturing and in the process of fuel creation and refinement. Uranium has to be mined, refined, turned into fuel rods etc.

There is no perfect solution, and the answer will be a mixture of technologies for the foreseeable future.

I-Like-To-Bike, I honestly don't know what percentages come from where, but from what I understand, Avista is pretty good relative to the nation when it comes to environmental impact.

Cooker, I think when they put "Zero Emissions" on the bus, it means the bus is not emitting things. Pretty simple.

No one is arguing power comes from nowhere, but something tells me even a coal plant is more efficient (and, it follows, less detrimental to the environment) than thousands of tiny generators. Also, battery/capacitor to motor systems are 90% efficient(1), gasoline engines at best 30%(2) (I'll even put footnotes for that!).

The most obvious benefit of the bus is not environmental or economic; rather, it's simply less unpleasant by a good margin. I'm not trading my bicycle in for a Leaf anytime soon!


1:Electrical Motor Efficiency
2:Fuel Economy: Where the Energy Goes

Except that it cons people into believing the bus creates no pollution.

Actually I hate the electric buses we have since the ride is incredibly jerky.

Forgive my scepticism, but I don't believe our culture has digressed to a point of stupidity so pervasive that people no longer perceive fundamental physical laws. I'm a pretty cynical pessimist, too. It's sort of a given that (at least) making the bus, shipping the bus and charging the bus produces pollution.

A wise policy no matter how they are powered.

Riding the electric bus... sounds bunches safer than drafting behind it.

I forget just how long it was that people flew in airplanes... before someone created a parachute. It isn't at all surprising... if we look at history... that we invented numerous ways to use energy before we invented cheap pollution free-ish energy. Even as people erect windmills and experiment with new ways to construct batteries.... progress on fusion power has continued to plot along.

The vast human inventiveness, creativity, and worry that went into replacing animal power little more than a century ago... vastly improved human lifestyles. And even helped progress the safety bicycle. Whether we fret or not... technical progress will transform energy production completely. Todays ways of producing power is very temporary. This isn't how it was done a century ago.... and it won't be done this way a century from now.

You have to break a few eggs... to make an omelet. Right now... energy-wise we are still in the broken eggs stage. If you look to the universe you know that energy is plentiful. Mankind will master the atom. Or we will follow our predecessors into extinction.

Good advice for anyone who chooses to ignore fundamental physical laws.