Richard Cranium

The American College of Sports Medicine has not formulated a position paper on the ingestion of protein during athletic events. It is a widely accepted understanding that only dietary carbohydrate can contribute to exercise performance.

However, it is also widely understood that at some point in time of any lengthy exercise session that protein ingestion is necessary to forestall and decrease current tissue damage and to promote new tissue and repair. The "trade off" of any protein ingestion being the decrease in gastric emptying times and reduced glucose uptake and glycogen re-synthesis.

Therefore, while it is likely that protein ingestion during any given single exercise session may decrease performance - it is also possible that any such protein ingestion will positively affect future exercise sessions.

Having read the preface to the poll - select the answer to the poll question that comes closest to your own experience and beliefs with regard to protein ingestion during longer term exercise periods.

CliftonGK1

One of my first 2 bottles is my favourite mix: 50/50 IsoPure Zero Carb, and Accelerade.
Once I'm warmed up and have been riding for a few hours, I'll move from my lighter food to my "real" food, which usually involves nibbling at a salami sandwich throughout the day.

My idea of a 12-hr event is a really hilly 200k, though. So I'm not exactly busting forth with the supreme sprinting effort that a racer involved with a 12-hr circuit event would be.

ToddBS

Peanut butter and honey sandwiches the second I even feel a bit peckish. Then I nibble on them for the rest of the ride, however long it may be (or until I run out). This is for any type of long ride for me. I missed the "12 hour" bit in the title at first, but if I were to do such an event I don't see that I'd change my eating pattern.

Homeyba

I'm not a dietitian by any means but after many years of ultra racing I know what works for me and I can tell you that I cannot do an event without protein. In the past when I tried the carb only diet for ultra races (because I was told that's how you do it) I was tossing my cookies less than 100 miles into a race. Carbs only just does not work for me. I actually went to the Dr. because I thought something was wrong. My Dr told me I needed protien so I started using fuels that included protien (Perpetuem at the time). Problem solved! 10-15% protien works well for my race diet...

Does protien increase your performance? It may not improve it but if you are puking on the side of the road without it...

PS my ultra events are 500+ mile races and RAAM. 12 hrs is just a double century...

The Octopus 

I like a little protein on the shorter rides (12 hours, doubles, 200Ks). A little peanut butter goes a long way to keeping me happy. For the longer stuff, I like a lot of protein. I mean, a lot. Eggs. Bacon. More chocolate milk than you can shake a stick at. I just finished a tour of the diners on US36 -- uh, I mean, the Last Chance 1200K -- and I'd wager that I took in three times the daily recommended amount of protein each day of the ride. Of course, I also spent 23:30 at the overnight controls, so this was hardly a "performance"-oriented event for me. Sure was fun, though!

Machka 

+1

Carbs on a long ride are OK, but give me some protein and I've got energy to burn. My speed picks up, I feel stronger, and I just feel better in general. Some of the best parts of my 600K and 1200K randonnees have been shortly after I've consumed protein.

I actually crave protein on long rides ... usually in the form of chicken sandwiches.

Richard Cranium

Thanks for the answers. But if you think more closely about the question, and remember that you are "racing" your bike for 12 hours, would you have answered differently.

The term "exercise session" means trying very hard. Harder than just riding an event to finish.

Machka 

The question doesn't say anything about racing. It just says "12-hour event" and "exercise session". Events can be anything ... and we all know that when experts talk about an "exercise session" they are talking about moderate exercise where you can still comfortably maintain a conversation with your fellow exercisers.


However, if we're assuming a race, on my best 24-hour race, beef jerky and salted almonds played a large role in getting me around the course.

Homeyba

I was referring specifically to racing... "my ultra events are 500+ mile races and RAAM."

btw, so you know I am really "racing" my events I have set or broken several course records in 500+mile races.

bobbycorno

On the bike, I do pretty much 100% carbs (Cytomax and Clif Shot Bloks, to be precise). Around meal times, I stop for a deli sandwich, cheeseburger, or some such. Not very structured or scientific about it, but it works.

BTW, your basic mini-mart cheeseburger (meat, cheese and bread, no lettuce or onions) is amazing ride food: tastes good, goes down easy, digests easily, lasts a long time. I swear by 'em.

SP
Bend, OR

Carbonfiberboy 

Sorrowfully, I have to admit that I've done all my brevets as though they were races. Just a personality defect. I also use about 15% protein in my mix. Even when I'm crosseyed tired, I can still kick, so I guess it works. Research and experience supports this approach for LD events. I don't know of any that supports the carb-only approach. Maybe RC can cite some.

I do use all-carb for short training and events. RC's right that the higher the intensity, the harder to digest. But we can't go really hard on anything over a 200k, meaning efforts well over LT.

Agree with Machka that after a couple hundred K, a turkey or chicken sandwich tastes mighty good.

kjfitz

I do my own custom mix of 2 cups of maltodextrin powder and 3/8 cup of soy powder along with various electrolytes. That's a four hour bottle at 250 cals per hour.

The soy makes it more difficult to dissolve the powder and stays lumpy for a while. I was never sure the soy protein made that much difference. So when preparing my baggies of powder for a recent double century with 17,000 feet of climbing I left the soy out. I did notice a difference. I was more sore longer after the ride. It also seemed like i had a slightly less sustained level of energy for the second half of the ride but that could certainly have been all the climbing.

There are so many variables that change from rid to ride that it is very difficult to determine what really makes a difference. Anecdotaly however over many rides using and not using protein I'm convinced it makes a positive difference in distances past 100 miles and in the recovery after the ride.

On another related note I've noticed that a big slug of carbs and protien right after a long ride (like within minutes of getting off the bike) makes a HUGE difference in my recovery soreness the next day. I do 120 cals of malto and 120 cals of whey protein a multi vitamin, omega 3 fish oil and a ibuprofen after all 200+ mile rides.

Hydrated

Before I even start, let me stop Richard Cranium before he even starts...

I know that my situation doesn't apply to other riders. So don't even post the "don't post dangerously specific and useless information on a forum" post that you love to drag out. I know that my situation is different... but I just post it so's you guys may have some food for thought.

Now we may proceed:

It is absolutely necessary that I take in regular amounts of protein for even the shortest rides... even rides as short as 30-45 minutes. I am a Type 1 (insulin dependent) diabetic, and my body cannot produce its own insulin to regulate blood glucose. I wear an insulin pump that gives me a steady supply of insulin through a teflon needle inserted under the skin of my abdomen... it shoots me with a tiny dose of insulin every three minutes. During exercise, my body uses insulin to burn through glucose very efficiently... and my blood glucose will fall very quickly. A Type 1's glucose levels can change so quickly that the symptoms sometimes get confused with those of fatigue or dehydration, and it would be very easy to ride yourself right into unconsciousness and BIG trouble. So I must eat constantly in order to keep my glucose up in a safe range that doesn't starve the brain of the glucose that it uses for fuel.

Using only carbs to keep my sugar up has drawbacks, however. Each intake of carbs alone will cause a rapid spike of blood glucose... followed by an equally rapid fall due to my body burning through the fuel. This results in my glucose level curves having extreme peaks and valleys. And riding that glucose roller coaster brings on unpleasant symptoms like headaches, fatigue, drowsiness, and nausea. That's why so many diabetics claim that they can't do long sessions of aerobic exercise... because it's not easy to control those swings in blood glucose.

I use two tools to control my glucose and smooth out the peaks and valleys.

In addition to my insulin pump, I wear a Constant Glucose Monitoring Sensor (CGMS). This uses a second needle inserted under my skin... again in the abdomen. This needle carries an electronic sensor that measures my blood glucose every 5 minutes and sends the result via a tiny radio transmitter to my monitoring device. The device analyzes the results and plots them as running graph on a small display. I strap the display onto my thigh so that I can read it at a glance while I'm on the bike. The CGMS is the tool that enables me to bike long distance at all. If I didn't have that device, I'd have to stop and perform a finger stick blood test every 20 or 30 minutes... what a pain!

The second tool is protein. As was said earlier, protein slows gastric emptying and protein rich foods normally have a lower glycemic index. That means that they spike my blood sugar less than pure carbs. And when taken along with carb heavy foods, protein will soften the spikes and smooth out the curves. So I usually eat some amount of protein even if I'm only going to be on the bike for a little while.

The combination of knowing how to eat along with the CGMS allows me to control my glucose and stay in the saddle. But I still fight two problems. One is that I often sweat enough that the tape that holds my needles in place comes loose. And the second is that I'm getting older and my vision is getting worse... sometimes I have to sit up in order to read the display on my CGMS because I'm not wearing my reading glasses while on the bike!

I did a relatively short study on this interaction for a graduate course when I was finishing my master's degree in engineering. Upon completing my master's degree, the dean of my college started recruiting me to get my Ph.D. by using these engineering methods to attempt to quantify the effects of the insulin/exercise/diet interaction. Dunno if I want to go back to school again, though. 19 years of school is enough!

thebulls

I answered "immediately" because my pre-ride eating session always has a moderate amount of protein. I usually eat pbj sandwiches during the first fifty miles or so before I run out. I don't like any of the "drinkable protein" alternatives, but I will take beef jerky and eat it throughout the ride, or if I don't do that, then I'll get protein at the controls. Post-ride, I try to eat a fair amount of protein, as well.

thebulls

Wow, Kudos to you!

For the declining vision thing, there is a handy solution. Buy yourself some bifocal safety glasses from

https://www.safetyglasses.com/bifocalreaders.htm

Get some clear ones for night-riding and tinted ones for sunglasses. They work, they're pretty cheap, and sufficiently stylish that they don't make people say "Ew, why are you wearing those glasses."

If you're both near-sighted and far-sighted then you might look at OTG (Over The Glasses) type goggles, or of course there are bicycle glasses designed to hold a prescription lens.

Nick

Richard Cranium

Interesting, but if you are diseased or are not attempting to exercise at an intensity that expends mostly glycogen, then the question doesn't apply to you.

If nothing else, the poll, and the answers it generated demonstrate the individual nature of longer-term exercise sessions. And often. my own advice to cyclists is to ride at a pace that allows for digestion, even if the food stuffs are pizza or chocolate milk.

ToddBS

I love jerky as road food. I need to get a dehydrator and make my own. Store-bought jerky is stupidly expensive.

Carbonfiberboy 

Hydrated: you're not that different. Same thing applies to us all, you're just a lot more sensitive. We all face those same issues. I sometimes wish I had a CGMS. Would help a lot in trying to figure out what's gone wrong sometimes. I ride with a Type 1 friend and have gotten him to stick me on occasion. And I don't think you're diseased!

I've often threatened to ride at a pizza eater's pace, but I lack the will power when it comes right down to it.

Allen

Wow, you do live up to your screen name.

Hydrated

Not diseased... just...errr... "special". If we're going to be politically correct, you may refer to me as "metabolically challenged"!

You're very correct, CFBoy... it's just that things are very magnified for us Type 1's. And you're also spot on with your observations about the CGMS. It was an eye opener for me when I first began to use one. The CGMS provides a treasure trove of data for a nerdy engineer like me, and (with a little analysis) gives me a deep insight into what my body's metabolism is actually doing. Many atheletes could really benefit from using a similar device... it's a shame that they're so hideously expensive to obtain and use. You can only purchase one by prescription under a physician's guidance... and in addition to the initial $1200 purchase price of the radio unit, the disposable sensors that insert under your skin cost about $400 for a box of 10, and each only lasts two to three days.

ToddBS

Jeez! That's nearly as bad as the markup on bike components!

Seriously though, my father is type 1 diabetic so I know all about the trials and tribulations of the condition. It's impressive what you've accomplished.

Gonzo Bob

With the way you worded the poll/question, it applies to anyone that feels like answering it.