groovestew

This...exactly...is what my goal has been all along. This exact ride is why I got into Randonneuring in the first place. I'd much rather have company than attempt it alone (I did attempt the Banff-Jasper leg alone last year but bailed 2/3 of the way), but finding someone willing and able to join me is a challenge.

I understand what you're getting at, but eating in the first 100 km has never been a problem for me. It's after I've been out there for about 7-8 hours that the problems start. It's in the second 100 km that I stop staying ahead of my hunger.

ThermionicScott 

I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think what Machka is saying is to get into the habit of nibbling on food from the get-go, so that it's in your stomach and digesting for the second 100k. During my 400k, my roadmates kept goading me to eat *now* because it wasn't going to get any easier. The fact that my stomach felt really full in the early evening, and I *still* had periodic lapses of energy meant that I didn't get the calories in soon enough.

Rowan

This. You've encapsulated what I think is the spirit of randonneuring, irrespective of how fast one might ride.

That full stomach thing can really get you between the eyes.

You think you've eaten a lot, and should be all fuelled up. But when I've done this, my pace has been awful, and it's taken several hours to feel better again.

The ramifications of over-eating are many. You don't have the fuel conversion going on fast enough. Your body is putting energy into digestion. You are low on glycogen, so your mental state is dropping. And indigestion is a real issue, especially if you are trying to up the pace despite the lack of energy.

I've found bakeries to be a particular danger.

Staying ahead of the refuelling game is so important, and does require experimentation -- solid fuel versus liquid, real versus powder, tasty versus bland, concentrated versus weak -- and strategies can change over the years.

chasm54

OP, I'm not a randonneur. I've done a few,and I do a lot of biggish distances in less formal circumstances, but I don't set out to ride 300km in a day, still less 600km. So feel free to dismiss what follows as irrelevant observations from a dilettante.

It strikes me that the problem is summed up in the title of the thread. You have a thoroughly negative view of yourself and your ability to live up to your own expectations. And these are your expectations, not those imposed by other people; as others have pointed out, you have much more time to complete these events than you are allowing yourself. On one occasion you could have spent several hours over the last few miles, and counted it a success. Instead you decided you couldn't finish, and turned yourself into a failure.

Were you to decide that your goal was to complete the distance within the time limit, and ride, eat, drink and rest accordingly, it seems to me that you wouldn't have a problem. And once you'd completed a couple at that manageable pace, your goal could be to take a half-hour off your time, and build a habit of succes and positive reinforcement which over time would have you achieving what you want. For some reason that isn't good enough for you, you'd rather set a higher standard than you're either ready for or required to achieve, and fail. you need to ask yourself why that is.

Machka 

Yes, that's what I'm saying ... get in the habit of nibbling food all the way through the shorter rides, right from the start, and then try to keep it up on longer rides.

When I first started randonneuring, I knew I was supposed to eat 200-300 calories per hour. So once an hour, I pulled out a 200-300 calorie energy bar and ate the whole thing all at once. Doing randonnees in Canada often means that we're bundled up, and getting the energy bars out was difficult so I felt I had no choice but to eat the whole thing all at once. That was OK for the first couple hours, but then it got harder and harder to get through the whole energy bar all at once ... and I just couldn't be bothered ... and I stopped eating ... and ....

I solved the problem by getting a handlebar bag I could get into while riding, and by getting a bento bag which was even easier to get into when I had thick gloves on. The bento bag in particular put the food right in front of me. I could easily take one small bite and put it away.

I also started experimenting with food, and discovered that I really don't like energy bars. Instead, one of my favourite ride foods are oatmeal raisin cookies ... large, soft delicious oatmeal raisin cookies. I put them into a sandwich bag, in the bento bag, and nibble away all through the ride.

downtube42

Some great advice above from people with far more experience than I. I'd like to add a little from my meager experiences, which may or may not be of help to the OP. I'm going to focus on nutrition and hydration, which can be related to mental state.

When I find my mental state deteriorating into negativeness, I slow down to drink and eat. Maybe even stop. As someone said earlier, it doesn't matter if the control is coming up in a few ks, eat anyway. It is absolutely silly to carry food for 100's of miles, not eat it, and have nutrition problems - as I've learned the hard way.

When I've had trouble eating due to upset stomach, thinking back I realize it started with an earlier hydration problem. I would say to myself "I'll drink when I get to the top of this hill", or "the bottom of this hill" or "around this curve" or "to the next turn". That's a mistake. Now I drink when I think of having a drink.

I've also found certain foods cause swallowing problems later on. In particular, peanuts cause me to have problems swallowing. I've never suffered peanut allergies, and have no problem with them outside of cycling. But if I eat any kind of peanut bar or peanuts on a brevet, it causes eating problems earlier. If you have eating problems, and you don't think it's from dehydration, look for a pattern in what you've eaten earlier.

I've probably ridden 90% of my randonneuring miles solo. Not completely by choice, but nonetheless that's how it's been. I have found that when things get really tough, it's nice to find someone to talk to. Even if it's some poor convenience store clerk... human interaction is helpful.

Somebody above called randonneuring "problem solving". I think that captures much of why I've enjoyed it so far.

StephenH

It's time to walk the dog, so I'll skip reading the last 18 replies and hope I don't duplicate them.

Performance-wise, you're doing fine. If you're finishing 200k in 8 hours, you're in better shape than I am.

What you need to do is find someone slower than you that never gives up and ride with them. It changes "endurance riding" into "social time", it keeps you at a pace you can manage all day/ all night, and if you're faster, you get to do the pulling for them.

Another technique is to leave your cell phone at home.

Machka 

A technique I used for my first 4 years of randonneuring.

I didn't have a cell phone in those days, and no one to call who would come and rescue me if I did. I knew I had to finish on my own steam, within the time limits (preferably) or some time later.

It's a great motivator to keep going.

Homeyba

You are exactly right!!!!! This is one of the biggest issues with many new randonneurs. This is also a big part of why I like to ride with new riders. I don't care who you are or how fast you go everyone goes through highs and lows while out on brevet. What differentiates the successful from the unsuccessful is how we deal with the lows. There are a number of reasons that you could be in a "low" cycle. Nutrition, hydration, riding too fast, or exhaustion. When you are in one of these "lows" the first thing you need to do is slow down (don't stop). Then you have to assess the situation and figure out what is wrong. Then you take steps to correct the problem and realize that lows (no matter how low) are only temporary. Things will and do get better. As long as you keep that in mind you'll be successful. You have to be a "my cup is half full" kind of guy and if you let doubt creep in, you are toast.

unterhausen

there is an incredibly strong and knowledgeable randonneur in our club that used to ride slow. I knew I didn't know what I was doing, but as long as I was in front of him I knew I was ok. Made the mistake of telling him that and now he's faster than me

max-a-mill

by that point i'd bet your already really far behind on calories. in my experience when food stops tasting good, you better stop and deal with that (usually by eating something and bringing yourself back from the verge of bonking) or you better be in the home stretch of your ride cause you ain't gonna sustain your riding much longer without getting calories in properly. being hungry is good! well into a ride when i am riding strong i seemingly always feel hungry and constantly think about food options at my next stop.

eating and drinking properly is tough as many have said; i think lots of people, even those who eat at proper intervals, may still not get enough calories over time leading to feeling like garbage. on longer rides you need a *****-ton of calories coming in. i prefer quick stops for larger amounts of food along with light on the bike snacking but if your eating on the bike only you better be eating A LOT pretty frequently.

so far this years revelation were fried apple slices from sheetz. god were/are those f-ing good.

one year i wanna tally up my credit card reciepts for a long ride and actually see what eating my way across a long ride actually costs per mile.

DXchulo

The first thing you need to do is figure out what's going on with the nutrition problems you're having. Consider all options. Maybe you're not eating enough, or maybe you're eating too much. There's good info on Hammer's site, on UMCA's site, and many others. It takes a lot of trial and error and everybody is different. Get to where you can do a 200k while still being able to take in calories towards the end.

It sounds to me like you need to finish a few rides, build some momentum, and put those DNFs behind you. I understand where you were coming from when you didn't finish the last 8k after you called your wife, but I feel like you should have finished that ride just for confidence's sake. I think your wife would have understood.

Ignore speed for the moment and focus on finishing. That doesn't mean you have to ride at a snail's pace, but ride at a pace that you know you can sustain, no matter how badly you want to ride as close to threshold as you can. Don't be afraid to take a short break when you need one. Once you have a series of finishes under your belt, then you can start focusing on speed. You'll have that confidence going that no matter what happens, you can finish. Quitting may always be in the back of your mind, but it won't dominate your thoughts so much.

Build slowly if you have to. It doesn't matter if you need to finish a bunch of 200s and 300s before you try the 400 again.

groovestew

The best/most enjoyable randonnees I've done were with riders who ride at the same pace as me, but take longer and/or more frequent breaks than I'd be inclined to take on my own. I tend to get antsy when the breaks wear on (I'm not a patient person), but I would rather stick with someone who rides at my pace than go on ahead. I realize now, given recent failures, how much good those breaks actually did me.

I actually find it hard to ride much below my comfortable speed - if I can ride a stretch at 25 km/h, I find it mentally and physically difficult to ride with someone who can only do 20 km/h.

Not a bad idea, and I've considered it...but my wife likes me to check in once in a while via text message when I'm out riding, so I probably won't follow this advice. However, my first 300 was an unexpectedly tough ride. I had a cell phone along, but no-one to call that day. In the last 100 km, I was really struggling, and I suspect that if an easy way out had presented itself, I would have considered taking it. But I didn't have a choice, and pressed on, and finished. As Machka said, not having someone to rescue you is a great motivator.

groovestew

Right...and I do this, and it's not a problem during the first 100-150 km to take in 200-300 calories per hour. Like Machka advises, I do try to spread my eating out - not just gobbling 300 calories at a time once per hour. But after that (and it varies from ride to ride), it gets tougher for me to eat, and I'm still figuring out what works best. I think I just need to be willing to take breaks, let my stomach settle a bit, and eat what I can.

groovestew

The thread title was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but you may not be far off. I don't have clinical depression or anything, but have had some minor issues with negative self-image ever since childhood. But that's for me and a shrink to discuss!

surreycrv 

between this OP'r and Hairy Hands (another newb insistent on racing), you guys just don't understand what these rides are all about. Its a ride that Rowan and Matchka have already stated, not a race. You are ruining your own enjoyment, so maybe you should go find a road club to play crit racer, short bursts of speed to satiate you.

oooh, its windy, I wanna quit. oooooh its wet, I wanna quit. oooooh its cold I wanna quit. These wouldn't happen if you stopped for a warm drink, a hot soup, or a donut.

have I said it yet, ITS NOT A RACE. sorry dude, you get no sympathy from me. All you have to do to finish, is to finish.

groovestew

surreycrv, randonnuering, as I understand it, is an individual pursuit. How one derives enjoyment from the ride may be different from someone else, and can even vary from ride to ride. There are former racers in the Alberta club who can do sub 8-hour 200s and sub 12-hour 300s. Not me! For me, the race is against myself, not those guys. In three seasons of randonnuering, I've completed six 200s, three 300s, and one 400. My goal, for each ride, is to see if I can do a little better than before. Part of my enjoyment is accomplishing that goal. That's how I'm driven. Obviously, you aren't. I don't begrudge people for having different goals than me, or for how they derive enjoyment out of a bike ride.

To date, I have never quit a ride due to rain, wind, or cold, and I've ridden in all kinds of conditions. I do get miserable in strong headwinds, and even start taking the wind as a personal affront sometimes, but I've never quit because it was windy. I quit because I exhausted my energy stores and had nothing left. I'm trying to learn how to ride in such a way to accomplish my goals. Squawking, "It's not a race" and berating me for something I've never done, isn't helpful.

unterhausen

my goal for randonneuring is to not hate myself for starting sometime during the ride. I think I may have finally accomplished that goal after 4 years. I start each ride with an appreciation that I might not be able to finish, but with confidence that it would have to be something really unexpected before that happened. I have been to the point where anytime I was climbing even a shallow slope I would have tremendous cramps but still finished. I have also had knee problems that made my right leg very weak and finally developed to the point where I had to one-leg the last 20 (hilly) miles of a 400k. So it would take a major equipment failure or major physical problems before I couldn't finish. I know someone that took 17 hours to finish a 200k, that's the kind of determination that I admire.

The guys that finish in 7 hours are not my heroes. There was a time when I could easily do that, I know what it takes training-wise, but it just doesn't impress me.

njkayaker

Of course, it's an individual pursuit. Though, regular DNF's indicates that what you are doing isn't right! Your early goal should be just to finish and then, after some experience, you can shoot for more difficult goals.

These rides present different challenges to different people. This one is yours to overcome!

Commodus

This is a bit harsh. Everyone runs into some tough bits on these rides sooner or later. Pushing through it is a bit of a learned skill.

Rowan

This is the crux of the matter.

You need to learn how to control this impatience both in randonneuring and life in order to succeed.

Machka 

Unfortunately you're in a province which treats randonneuring as though it were racing. Faster is better. Slow down for nothing. I randonneured there for 4 years and was up against that attitude the whole time. (I was also the ride organiser for the central Alberta events for several years, and ended up riding most of them solo)

I see that the organiser for the Edmonton events has changed. I can't remember the name of the previous organiser (Bill?) but if he's still around, he would be a good one to ride with. He paces himself very well and he knows when to stop for food. He'd be a good mentor. We rode the Elk Island 200K together and finished with a couple hours to spare.

I also suggest you try to ride with the BC Randonneurs ... you'll find people with a variety of perspectives, and you'll have a much better chance of finding someone to ride with at a pace you can maintain for a whole event. The Saskatchewan and Manitoba Randonneurs were good as well, but their clubs are quite small and chances are their events are close to finished for the year.

I started with the Manitoba Randonneurs. There were a few faster riders, but they slowed down for the rest of us during the first 50 km or so, and we all rode together as a group. Then the faster riders gradually increased their speed, and the rest of us continued on treating the events like day tours and rolling picnics. I really enjoyed riding with them, and finished many SR series with them.


At this point, it sounds like your goal should be to finish each event comfortably. Once you're doing that regularly, then you can work on trying to do them faster.

surreycrv 

didn't you post you couldn't slow down. that is a choice. I suppose after you have completed a brevet or 2, at a distance you had never completed before, then beating the clock makes sense. But until then, you have plenty of time to eat, fuel the machine and rest the engine. (from your own posting you haven't been doing that) Lets say you are on a long car drive, but because you don't want to wait at a full gas station you just keep on going. Well that car will run out of gas, no matter what. So you MUST stop then and wait for a tow.

Or another analogy is an infant, they don't arrive in the world ready to run all over the park. Baby steps. So kick it down a notch, eat more, stop more, let the fast guys race away. Why blow yourself up, before the end. Of the 100km populaires i've ridden the speeds are higher, because the effort is only for <4 hrs. A great many think just double it for the 200km. But the 2nd half is harder, and same occurs with the addition of another 100 or 200 or 400.

For me, I have no bailout preplanned for any ride, be it a brevet or a Sat fun ride. If I am hungry I eat, if tired I rest. If something breaks I jury rig it to limp home. And I tend to ride to the start of brevets, even if its 60+km away. That is another reason to use ALL the resources available to complete the loop, from my home to the ride and then back to my home. fast times mean nothing if you can't finish.

If I was too gruff, I apologize for the tone but not the content. This sport is about completion, not speed.

Machka 

Some articles which might be helpful:
https://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/toolbox/toolbox.html - BC Randonneurs list of articles

https://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/toolbox.../training.html - How to train for a randonnee


And this one in particular ...
https://www.randonneurs.bc.ca/toolbox...himschoot.html

To quote one paragraph in that article ("Eating an elephant" by Ron Himschoot) ...
(Bolding mine)


With 8 km to go, and ample time to recover from the bonk and walk to the finish, about the only way I would not have covered that distance under my own steam would be in an ambulance.

Commodus

Yea, come ride with us