You are right the notion. Just remember that next years x-5 will be this years x-7. SRAM is introducing a brand new X-9 and bumping everything else down.

Is plastic bad??? That depends on the application.

Rohloff, there is no equal.

........... It's just a bit pricey.

I shall reply to those who believe I do not know what I am talking about. I have been riding and racing bicycles before many of you were born and have seen lots of brands come and go. How many miles have you all ridden? Does your stuff break because of crashes and abuse...or has anyone here ACTUALLY worn out any XTR or Dura Ace component besides a chain or cog set? I would love to hear. I agree Sram has made a decent products over the years. In fact, the first Olympics w/ MTB racing, 4 of the top 5 finishers used Grip Shift. However this is their first ever line that is comparable to Shimano XTR. Perhaps this Xo edition is a little better then the mighty XTR....but it won't last. The current XTR line came on in 2003, in 10/07 Shimano will release the new XTR. Have the nay sayers seen it? I would bet a paycheck that Sram does not even spend half the money that Shimano spends on research and development (for their top of the line products). Shimano is king. It always has been king and always will. That's it. Say what you want. I have used it all. Nothing else compares. This is what I know.

Wow, stay cool, big man.

We're not worthy, we're not worthy!!!!!!!!!!

Why would they change the xtr components a year after redesigning them? Miles since 1984, hmm let's see total miles would have to be too many to keep track now. My drivetrain stuff doesn't break at all, probably because there are no deraillieurs on my bikes. You also know that stupid loop that you have to have in order for shimano's deraillieurs to work. Those tend to like getting snarled against something and will either bend the deraillieur, or break the hanger. I have worn out and have broken loads of XTR deraillieurs and Dura Ace deraillieurs in my time riding.

I don't buy into this shimano is king crappola, just as I don't buy into the arguments for Sram either. Deraillieurs suck. I won't go back to gears until the bugs with the gearbox's designs are fixed and have become readily available.

Also sometimes Shimano's research and development produces something incredibly stupid, lets see here, dual control on the saint line, and the ill fated from the start Shimano Airlines.

That doesn't apply to me.

Lots and lots.

Sometimes.

Yes. I've worn out XTR shifters. My DA shifters died after two seasons of racing cross. I've had XTR derailleurs wear out at the pivot points and I've had the spring die as well. Jockey pullies have also worn out.

Hey grandpa Shimano, have you actually put a bunch of miles on XO stuff? It isn't comparable to XTR. It's much better. Crisper shifting and it doesn't start missing like XTR does. That 1:1 ratio makes a big difference in performance. BTW, I've used XTR shifters and derailleurs on my bikes since it was first introduced. Maybe we rode together back at the dawn of time?

You are really making me laugh now.

You still haven't explained why nothing compares to Shimano. In fact, you've admited that SRAM stuff does compare. Interesting.

i have looked into it extensively...it is not as good as i thought unless the frame is custom built for rohloff

The frame doesn't have to be specifically built for rohloff. speedhub.nate has an Iron Horse mkIII with a Rohloff. And that frame isn't designed with a speedhub in mind.

its a toss-up
Sram X-9 drive and Shimano XT brakes is the way to go

oh i know that. however, if you are not careful, the torque of the hub in certain gears can bend and/or rip out of the dropouts. (there are a lot of guys with them on the 29er MTBR forums)

plus there is the issue of cable routing. a frame made for them can have a cleaner look. a lot of those guys replaced their cables right away too.

there are multiple ways to secure the hub: one involves the clunky speedbone another one can clamp to the left chain stay.

the major plus is a really solid wheel. i still like them and can justify the price, but after seeing the bent dropouts and stuff i just don't know if i feel like doing that to my frame.

its still cool though. for my 29er, i am leaning towards a SS Hadley hub which allows, i believe, 4 or 5 gears. this comes with the bonus of wider flanges for more lateral rigidity on 29er wheels. i9 also has sweet 29er SS hubs that can run 4 gears. those would be nice too. not sure what i will do yet...hadley, i9, or rohloff

THat's why you have to be careful.

IMO, if you are a ride, ride, ride and never maintain your bike type rider, I would say go SRAM. I have never seen a component group put up with as much neglect and keep working like the higher end SRAM stuff. X.7, X.9 and the over priced XO. I am sure it is their insistence on using a 1 to 1 pull ratio in their rear derailleurs and real springs in the rear derailleurs. But mate the Shimano compatible Rocket or Attack shifters to a wimpy Shimano Derailleur and all you have is twist shifting Shimano. Might as well go Revo shift.

That is not to say SRAM has not had some serious bumps along the way. Back in the early 90's, SRAM supplied my shop team with their new high end 8 speed shifters. Half a season and they were toast. Back then, Shimano still ruled the high end. But now, I wonder. The new trigger shifters on the lower end Jamis XC series have been absolutely better than the comparable Acera offering from Shimano. If either of them is to win this war (and don't kid yourself, they hate each other), it will be won with the components on the $300 to $400 bkes. This year I would say SRAM won that round.

All that said, I still run Shimano on most of my bikes. But I pay attention to them regularly. So the fussiness that comes with Shimano's wimpy springs and sensitivity to cable grunge is not generally a problem. I did just build up a Rocky Slayer frame with a SRAM X9 Drivetrain. But I put a Shimano XTR front derailleur on the front. IMO, the XTR front derailleur is still the best one out there.

Once you get past a certain point in the component hiearchy, none of it is junk. Both of them are making good stuff. You just need to learn their peculiarities and take care of them. I am even becoming a fan of the newer Rapid Rise systems enough to actually put them on my Rocky Blizzard for next Spring. Yes, it's fussy. But I think I have them figured out. But I had to do it outside the box and throw the directions away.

how about sram's derallers, I never tried those.
I actually do like sram's cassettes, but somehow shimano lasts longer.
I want to build a full sram bike one day and see the result, otherwise it's really hard to tell. Sram is more expensive.

Your experience certainly lends credibility to your argument. However, I know old fogies that insist that nothing is wrong with handling liquid mercury because "they done it as a kid and it didn't hurt'em none then". Experience is not an end all argument.


The new XTR stuff looks really slick. The carbon carriers with the titanium rings/cogs are really over the top cool. SRAM also has new stuff coming out in 2007 but they are standing pat with the X.0 shifting. It works well enough for now and they are moving some of their X.0 concepts into a brand new X.9 line. As I recall there are three new brakes from avid and a handful of new RockShox forks.

Please don't make it a "Ford vs Chevy" argument. Rationale, sane people can look at the offerings from both companies and choose the pieces that best suite their need.

Sure it compares. People compare all the time. SRAM has gone from a manufacturer of a single product (indexed throttle shifters) to the second biggest cycling component company in the world. You do not accomplish this type of insurgent market erosion making junk products. Certainly not when your gains are coming from aftermarket sales rather than OEM.

How long will Shimano be #1??? I don't know. But I will guarantee you that if Shimano keeps trying to "outmarket" SRAM rather than "out-innovate" they will lose their thrown. And that will be good for one group ... the consumer who gets to pick from these two excellent companies innovating for our $$$. Why one could only hope that Hayes/Sun/Ringle and Campagnalo could hook up to make a third big horizontal monopoly and put some heat under both Shimano and SRAM.

Very well said.

IMO, just use what WORKS for you. If you find yourself riding more rather than adjusting/fixing your equipment, then it works. Personally I'd like to try out SRAM, but it's not that established here in the Philippines yet. I can get X7 or X9 components but there's not much support yet, so like the majority of riders here, I got Shimano (yes, Rapid Rise). The only SRAM on my bike is a PG-990 cassette.