29er's - Who is driving this trend?
08-16-07, 09:57 AM
#76
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08-16-07, 01:01 PM
#77
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That someone is Alex Morgan, founder of BCD Racing. He's gone big into 29 for DH. He's in his second season racing on 29s - - this year back on the World Cup circuit. But then Alex has a bit of the 'mad scientist' in him anyway, what with his carbon fiber frames and all.
Thanks
08-16-07, 01:23 PM
#78
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I am interested to know about the 29er bikes. I am not convinced enough to buy one yet, but that may change. I do appreciate positive changes brought about by new ideas......
According to Gary Fisher website “Pepperdine University found that 29inc wheels ride 6% faster on uphill courses and 3% faster on cross-country courses than their 26inch cousins.”
to me, these claimed advantages of using a 29er bike is very insignificant. Not enough to create a true movement. There my be some other advantages. but that has to be established and well documented. I strongly believe that I a few minor changes in my fitness level and my 26er bike would would achieve those 3% and 6% changes.
Now, at 5'10" 29er feels (emphasis on feel) too big to me. Also, I dont like the handling qualities of 29ers on twisty and technical singletracs and downhill sections (darn XC terrain has downhill sections too). They feel too clumpsy and slow to respond. but, these are based on my feeling.
Now, if some one feels that the 29ers are substentially different than 26ers. It may be because its a feeling. Cause, research suggest a very insignificatn change.
I see a use for 29er for larger rider. or, I am going to say this, people who like new things. or a little bit of attention hungry (how about a 69er with ridig fork and single speed with drop bars.....you will be the talk of the town). there is nothing wrong with any of these. but, I think we could use some critical thinking before declaring that 29ers are somehow far superior than the rest of the options in the MTB market....
none of us can say if 29ers are fad or not....only time will decide. if you want to kid yourself....have fun..
According to Gary Fisher website “Pepperdine University found that 29inc wheels ride 6% faster on uphill courses and 3% faster on cross-country courses than their 26inch cousins.”
to me, these claimed advantages of using a 29er bike is very insignificant. Not enough to create a true movement. There my be some other advantages. but that has to be established and well documented. I strongly believe that I a few minor changes in my fitness level and my 26er bike would would achieve those 3% and 6% changes.
Now, at 5'10" 29er feels (emphasis on feel) too big to me. Also, I dont like the handling qualities of 29ers on twisty and technical singletracs and downhill sections (darn XC terrain has downhill sections too). They feel too clumpsy and slow to respond. but, these are based on my feeling.
Now, if some one feels that the 29ers are substentially different than 26ers. It may be because its a feeling. Cause, research suggest a very insignificatn change.
I see a use for 29er for larger rider. or, I am going to say this, people who like new things. or a little bit of attention hungry (how about a 69er with ridig fork and single speed with drop bars.....you will be the talk of the town). there is nothing wrong with any of these. but, I think we could use some critical thinking before declaring that 29ers are somehow far superior than the rest of the options in the MTB market....
none of us can say if 29ers are fad or not....only time will decide. if you want to kid yourself....have fun..
08-16-07, 03:04 PM
#79
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
So, short people (I'm 6'2" when I'm in a good mood, 6'1" when I slouch 
) feel better when they can ride lower between the wheels? How about 45'ers so you can have the top of the tire in your line of sight?
I kid, I kid....
The idea behind different drivetrain groups... eh, I don't know, I think it'd just be easier to downshift. If I really need the granny-granny gear (which is the only end of the gear range that's truly affected, I'd say), I probably should be carrying the bike on my shoulder instead.
Popularity? My LBS probably isn't a fair indicator since they're a GF dealer, but a third of the mountain bikes on display today were 29ers, and not all were GF bikes. I'm about 80% sure that I'd get a 29er for my next MTB.
) feel better when they can ride lower between the wheels? How about 45'ers so you can have the top of the tire in your line of sight? I kid, I kid....The idea behind different drivetrain groups... eh, I don't know, I think it'd just be easier to downshift. If I really need the granny-granny gear (which is the only end of the gear range that's truly affected, I'd say), I probably should be carrying the bike on my shoulder instead.
Popularity? My LBS probably isn't a fair indicator since they're a GF dealer, but a third of the mountain bikes on display today were 29ers, and not all were GF bikes. I'm about 80% sure that I'd get a 29er for my next MTB.
08-16-07, 03:40 PM
#80
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I got to know him because we travelled and roomed together up at the Masters' Worlds last year. Neat guy. He flew into Spokane and we drove up. Kinda fun taggin' along with a guy who's on a first-name basis with Shaums March and those other ex-pros.
BTW, if you ever want to see how to pack a bike for world travel, you oughta see Alex's system. Amazing.
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08-16-07, 05:31 PM
#81
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Thanks SherpaPeaks for being the first to offer a glimmer of doubt. Great to hear from supporters but it's not likely that someone who has already bought a 29er is going to say it is crap because that would reflect poorly on them now wouldn't it. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to hear first hand experience with these products - that's why I'm here - but I was also looking for a little balance in this discussion. I was looking to hear from those who are still on the fence about this.
3% to 6% is certainly something that can be gained through improved fitness, especially if you aren't already a pro and trying everything you can to squeeze out 1% or 2% more so that you go from 50th to top 5.
So it seems that 29ers have a presence on the sales floor. Is this a regional thing? Are they more popular in areas were there is more double track and less super technical, roots twisty stuff? Can anyone talk about what they see at their LBS and include region of the US or Canada they are in? I am wondering if this is a factor?
Thanks everyone for your input so far. Just to restate my goals here (for those who don't want to read the entire thread) I work in the bike industry in Taiwan and am seeing something that is both worrying to me and exciting at the same time. I am trying to get a handle on which way 29ers will go because it is job related.
Aside from working with OE and assembly factories in Asia, I am also a Product Manager for a local distributor. The 29er hasn't caught on here yet and I am looking at this trend and trying to decide if we will be the first in our market to introduce it, or at least promote the aftermarket items needed to support it.
3% to 6% is certainly something that can be gained through improved fitness, especially if you aren't already a pro and trying everything you can to squeeze out 1% or 2% more so that you go from 50th to top 5.
So it seems that 29ers have a presence on the sales floor. Is this a regional thing? Are they more popular in areas were there is more double track and less super technical, roots twisty stuff? Can anyone talk about what they see at their LBS and include region of the US or Canada they are in? I am wondering if this is a factor?
Thanks everyone for your input so far. Just to restate my goals here (for those who don't want to read the entire thread) I work in the bike industry in Taiwan and am seeing something that is both worrying to me and exciting at the same time. I am trying to get a handle on which way 29ers will go because it is job related.
Aside from working with OE and assembly factories in Asia, I am also a Product Manager for a local distributor. The 29er hasn't caught on here yet and I am looking at this trend and trying to decide if we will be the first in our market to introduce it, or at least promote the aftermarket items needed to support it.
08-16-07, 05:38 PM
#82
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
I haven't got the faintest idea what the terrain is like around DC. I also haven't closely surveyed the other local shops to see how many of their inventory are 29ers, but of the shops I've seen, I don't think any of them didn't have 29ers of some kind.
08-16-07, 05:59 PM
#83
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The 29er thing is still pretty niche here in the Pacific Northwest; but it is being driven mainly by the easy accessibility of Redline-brand 29ers, since it is a 'house brand' of Seattle Bicycle Supply. Almost any dealer, no matter what their major brands are, can order from SBS.
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08-16-07, 11:04 PM
#84
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Something that just came to my mind: 29ers may be selling in small numbers, but they probably act as a road bike dampener, too: a lot of 29er owners use their bikes for commuting, by replacing the wheels with skinnier ones, during the workdays. Come week-end, and they throw on the wheels with the knobbers, and they get the MTB back.
08-17-07, 12:36 AM
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Perhaps I'm not being clear enough. I am talking about marketing hype. Maybe my sarcasm isn't coming across. I'll try to use some of the smiley faces next time.
If you want a 10% reduction (as your math leads us to believe) perhaps that can be justification for designing a29er specific crankset. The company that has this new wonder crank now has a marketing gimmick that other companies don't have. That new crank will need a new fr der, won't it? If we already have a need for slightly larger rotors, heck, through in a RR der and it's a group.
I'm talking about marketing people - not math.
If you want a 10% reduction (as your math leads us to believe) perhaps that can be justification for designing a29er specific crankset. The company that has this new wonder crank now has a marketing gimmick that other companies don't have. That new crank will need a new fr der, won't it? If we already have a need for slightly larger rotors, heck, through in a RR der and it's a group.
I'm talking about marketing people - not math.
No, that new "crank" (I believe you meant "crankset", but oh, ok, it's just me being pedantic, I guess) will not need a new front deraileur. Basically, I see you are a bit ignorant when it comes to bike mechanics, and this leads me to believe your original post was not, in fact, sarcastic, but uninformed.
By the way: do you have something against math?
08-17-07, 01:22 AM
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I have no experience with the actual performance of 29ers and how they differ from their 26er counterparts. If there are serious advantages in this type of bike, its still difficult to break into this market, because as much as we mountain bikers like to think ourselves revolutionaries, we aren't. For the price we pay, we could be riding a proven 26er design.
08-17-07, 02:10 AM
#88
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No, that new "crank" (I believe you meant "crankset", but oh, ok, it's just me being pedantic, I guess) will not need a new front deraileur. Basically, I see you are a bit ignorant when it comes to bike mechanics, and this leads me to believe your original post was not, in fact, sarcastic, but uninformed.
Now put down your slide rule and pay attention. Myopia is a terrible thing.
You need a new fr der because you WANT TO SELL ONE. You can make the technical argument (like you do when you go from standard to compact on the road) that the much smaller granny ring requires a specific shaped der cage. But who cares?
But this isn't the point. It never was the point.
The point is that it can be MARKETED as a new 29er specific der to go with the 29er specific crankset - marketing, marketing, marketing, to go with the 29er specific rotors to go with the 29er specific rr der or you can buy it all on my new 29er that has this super special 29er specific group that no other company has so mine must be the best. Marketing.
As a master mechanic you must surely be aware of how many products work just fine in situations that they weren't originally designed or marketed for. Do you remember Shimano Sante? It was a pretty off-white 600 group for yuppies. What was different about it? Nothing. It was marketing.
The issue I have raised with this thread is one of how much of the hype surrounding 29ers is marketing and how much of it is genuine consumer demand? The technical issue are irrelevant. I am trying to talk about perception, not facts.
08-17-07, 05:57 AM
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Specialized dealer, two days ago - one Niner brand frame in stock that had been built-up and put out for display. Used to also have a Specialized Crosstrail Pro, but I bought that one
. More will come in, I'm sure, when the 2008 stock arrives in a couple of months.Trek dealer, late May or early June - one 69er on display.
Giant dealer, two days ago and several visits over the summer - no 29ers at all.
Gary Fisher dealer, several visits from late May through early July - One Cobia on the showroom floor.
Interesting question. I look forward to seeing other responses.
08-17-07, 08:36 AM
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I have seen one, in whistler bc, on display for show. Kind of like a freak show "hey look at this, what an fed up idea"...I have seen a few scattered in vancouver, but its the same batch I saw earlier in the year. If they are selling they aren't selling very fast
08-17-07, 08:55 AM
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In my XC club we have 50+ riders and I think I've only seen on 29er. It was purchased by a guy with strong ties to the local distributors and who has a lot of bikes in his stable. I've seen pictures of him riding it but mainly seen him ride his 26" bikes. I think he did use it for commuting though. Our club is based in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
08-17-07, 11:27 AM
#93
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In my XC club we have 50+ riders and I think I've only seen on 29er. It was purchased by a guy with strong ties to the local distributors and who has a lot of bikes in his stable. I've seen pictures of him riding it but mainly seen him ride his 26" bikes. I think he did use it for commuting though. Our club is based in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
https://www.ransbikes.com/DynamikPro07.htm#
08-17-07, 11:41 AM
#94
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I want this bike in 29er. so I will have the best of all.....3% more momentum.....and amazing climbing qualities.....etc...etc....
https://www.ransbikes.com/DynamikPro07.htm#
https://www.ransbikes.com/DynamikPro07.htm#
08-17-07, 11:53 AM
#95
Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped.
08-17-07, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by sherpapeak
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08-17-07, 12:12 PM
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08-17-07, 12:15 PM
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Please, no! Well, I visit occasionally; but they booooooorrrrre me. You young punks are much more fun.
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08-17-07, 12:26 PM
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08-17-07, 12:31 PM
#100
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I said that with tongue-in-cheek, s. Most of you are probably more mature than I am
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