False. A component of "rise" is up sweep which cannot be "fixed" by using a different stem.

The other point that you ignored is back sweep.

I'm still trying to figure out why you claim that flat bars are better?

not this argument again!

It's personal preference Y'all.

I'm trying to figue out a lot of crap posted in this thread.I think they should have a grom forum ride. They could get elf,xcracer,profail and we could dig up M.A.M.and Ol'222 . We could get Junkyard to oversee this event.

False.

It's a number of clueless, inexperienced kids pontificating on subjects that they know practically nothing about, and other, more experienced and knowledgeable folks laughing at the aforementioned groms.

The claims that have been made have nothing to do with personal preference.

I moved from a riser to a flat bar recently. I have a 38mm and the budget for an AL bar. All of the riser bars I've found are very wide and inconvenient on my local narrow, windy trails. I went to a flat bar so that I could get something narrower. I'm still undecided on the ergonomics of it, if I find it too uncomfortable I may go with a taller stem.

The claims that are being made have nothing to do with preference? Yes.
Its not a matter of preference? Thats a load of bull.

Go to your LBS and see if they'll let you try out a couple of bars they may have lying around the shop that are similar in rise and back/up sweep to the ones you want.

Oh and 66 - how the heck could you forget good ole Norco_rider77?

I thought I was forgetting someone. Thanks for the help.

What did I do in this thread, save for my over exaggerating of carbon bar prices (which I accepted without challenge)? Last time I checked, I've been giving out less and less mis-information lately, and I even challaenged the idea of getting a flat bar BEFORE you oldsters came into this thread.

Also, I'm having qualms about listening to you guys. Sure, you might be knowledgeable, but have some modesty. It's difficult to listen to someone who fancies themself ultimately superior. Also, this "Grom" crap is escalating to a point that's even worse than roadies calling each other Freds, when it's purely something based on past posts and has to correlation to someone's current state of mind. You also elminated me from the Forum Ride becuase I stated I liked my saddle for it's looks and funcionality, 66.... Just saying....

Not saying I don't respect you all and everything, but you guys seem to have a mildly elitist nature, a strong dislike of "Groms" and a quick trigger finger to ruin reputations.

Am I a inexperienced kid?

Don't wanna be in that group.

A grom is a young rider. The fact is that you are getting worked up over nothing.

The Forum ride has nothing to do with your saddle.If we invite someone we need to ride/hang out with them first. That way we know who'll fit in.

IIRC

Meh "Yeah, I like my saddle. Pretty comfortable, and looks great to."
66 "Some people care more about how their bike performs than how it looks. No invite for you."

I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, but that's nearly the exact quotes.

Also, I'm worked up about your accusations that I spew crap all the time.

Shall I answer this one?

I think it great that you're worked up. It shows some spunk there jr. I'm sure that we'll get up and ride sometime this summer. That should be some good fun.

It's not a question, and they key word is "all".

"Ward, I think the old Fogeys are being too hard on the Beaver."

ProFAIL you really do give info to people that isn't correct. When the more experienced riders correct you, you get pissed off.If you are so up on what is best, why aren't you writing a book, an instructional tutorial on building up a bike or ways to ride? It seems you can't learn from others who know what they are talking about but you want the new riders to learn from you.

A big mistake.

One day you are going to jack somebody up.

I count three.

Three times you've failed to comprehend a thread, and immediately attack me based on innacuracies. Perhaps it's becuase it's just easier to be ignorant. Of course, I can't be CERTAIN on why you do this, only you can.

If you had actually read this thread, you'd see that I immediately accepted that I was wrong. In fact, if you read MOST threads that I've posted in reently, I admit that I'm wrong. Take the thread about shifting issues. People calling me out on being wrong doesn't make me angry.

What does make me mad are biased ass-hats like you who barge in with no facts or information to spew their elitist crap all over me. Who said I don't want to learn? Who said I want to be a teacher? get your facts straight before you come to me thinking you've REALLY nailed me.

And where the hell is your amazing advice? Every post I've read about you is along the lines of "No. You're wrong becuase you're a teenager." Let's see YOUR Big Blue Book of bicycle repair.

Go away. You are unneeded and unwanted.

It worked!!!

Is that your rebuttal? "It worked"? What worked? That you made yourself look like an idiot, and now you have nothing better to do but "play it cool" and act like it was some higher plan to get me irritated, since you are devoid of enough intellegence to come up with a witty snap?

Oh so mature.

Enlighten me, child.

Do you have anything better to do than put smiley faces in your posts to make up for the lack of intelligent script?

That smiley face may think you're el-oh-el hilarious, but no one else does.

I think it's adorable that you try so hard to annoy me. I'm curious as to what kind of social life you have. Any kind of insight as to how it is, that's free of outright lies?