cyclops

Lets go for four pages,.................................. did you call me a curmudgeon?

pablosnazzy

i like you. you are full of lovely accusations but fail to ever back them up with proof. nicely done.

UberGeek

Apparently, only your version of the "One True Way" for mountain bikers is correct, and your notion of "The One True Way" for trail extension is correct.

Guess what? If the people who want smooth, no fuss trails are the majority; then, they do in fact get to decide the trails. It's a fact of life. Get over it.

Yeah, I'm 30 years old. I don't ride anything but the nice smooth paths anymore. I'm not as young as I was, and I can't afford to take as much risk.

Maybe they've tried serious mountain biking, and settled on what they do. Deal with it.

pablosnazzy

ubergeek - i honestly think you misunderstood my point, but you seem pretty intent on taking my rant personal. i don't feel like arguing or trying to explain anymore, and i don't want to rob you of outrage and angst, so i will just say you are right. congratulations, you win.

rankin116

You're 30 and can't take risks? Are you kidding me? 30? 30?!? I hope you don't drive a car either, because that's very risky I hear.

pablosnazzy

now now, it's not his fault. kids today seem more conservative. maybe when he is 42, like me, he will be more reckless. perhaps when he is 50, like Dminor, he will be racing downhill like Dminor.

pablosnazzy

holy crap, now that i think about it, i think i'm the curmudgeon

cyclops

Dminor is 50 again?

cryptid01

I think they ran out of numbers so he had to start coming back down.

commo_soulja

Since this is the "I'm a cooler/hipper mountain biker because..." thread.

Two-part Query:
Is it mountain biking if I ride my mountain bike solely to commute to work? Route is gravel trails and cobblestones through the forest. No pack or panniers. Change of clothes stashed at work.

Alternately, am I a mountain biker if I ride my converted mtb commuter on singletrack with loaded pannier attached to the rack and the fenders making a racket going over rocks, roots and such?

Help? I need validation!

dspaff088

haha, we all ride bikes... cant we all get along?

I like riding my road bike. I also like pounding trails on my crappy mountain bike. I also like taking my old BMX bike to dirt jumps and skateparks. Oh and sometimes I ride a beach cruiser to the bar, is that okay?

ChasH

I'd like to have a piece of that action.

Personally I found 50 to be a good vintage to take up paragliding and then flying. IME 50 is NOT a time to start worrying about negotiating gnarly stuff on a MTB, unless you're racing of course. In which case you're just nuts regardless of age ....

ChasH

That's odd, I don't remember you standing there behind me as I was preparing to make my 300 ft 1-in-3 descent. Good camerawork.

Pablo: I think you're holding up your end very nicely, considering. Keep it up.

ADSR

I didn't know I could mountain bike wrong. I thought all I had to do was keep the rubber side down and I'd be all right.

JonathanGennick 

Getting back to the original post, most "mountain bikers" in my area are really just "dirt pathers" or "roadies on dirt". All they want are smooth trails through the trees. They buy full-suspension bikes, then complain about and dodge around any roots and rocks that might be on the trail. We have but one designated mountain bike trail in our county. Just one! The focus of all the trail work these past few years has been to smooth out the trail and eliminate bumps, roots, rocks, and any technical sections.

The sad truth is, that one trail needs to be smoothed out. I've come to agree with that focus on smoothing for various reasons that I won't bother getting into, but that I agree with and feel are valid. If we're to ever have a technical trail in our county, we need to build one, but there really aren't enough people interested in such a trail. See my preceding paragraph.

NCMTBIKER

One reason i ride is stress releif....really helps

crazyb

Wow, I'm a roadie that just bought a mountain bike. I probably should take it back.

electrik

If you intend to act like a "roadie" on the trails, hope you still have the receipt!

TacomaSailor

op

I have tried to ignore this thread but it is too much fun now!

Here is another rant from an old, battered, long time rider:

I’ve been riding mountain bikes for over 30 years in some pretty serious and technical terrain from Alaska to Cabo San Lucas. I started mountain biking in the PacNW long before anyone had an idea of restricting our access to anything. I am a fairly skilled rider who can manage almost any single track – up or down.

I’ve also been a techno-road rider for over 50 years. I love gadgets and use them on my bikes. I’m also a very good photographer and use my bikes to get me to remote locations for picture taking.

You criticized someone who said “ he just wanted to "tick off the miles." cool, ok, why don't you just ride on the road?” Jeez – I really don’t understand that!!

I ride 40 – 60 miles on my road bike several days a week but sometimes I feel like quieter riding and put 1.5” light tread tires on my hard tail and go do 30 – 40 miles on old logging roads in the Cascades. I am doing those rides for both a cardio workout and to enjoy the woods and mountains. Does riding my mountain bike for mileage on gravel and dirt roads disqualify me from being a “real” mountain biker?

How about if, the next day, I go do 15 miles/3000’ UP root infested single track - will that win back my “ real mtb” status? Do I get extra “real mtb” status points if I do three face plants on the way back down? If it is wet and I have to remove my glasses because of the mud splatter– is that good for extra points?

OOPS! I’m going to lose points because I wear a lycra jersey and wear a heart monitor. BUT – I might get some of those points back because I wear baggy shorts (except when I wear spandex shorts). HOW DO I KNOW if I am behaving in the proper MTB fashion with the proper attitude?

Am I violating the sacred mtb trust/oath if I clean a rock garden while wearing lycra and a heart monitor?

I’m sure you are nice fellow and a good rider but I find it hard to appreciate your judgmental attitude and tone. What can you really know about a person and their circumstance from watching them ride for a couple minutes and then asking them why they don’t have a heavy weight FS bike?

I have done a lot of serious damage to my body: football, soccer, riding, climbing, board-sailing (one of the first in the Gorge), running, ski-mountaineering,…etc. As I reach my mid-60s I’m starting to really pay for those seven knee surgeries, three broken collar bones, ??? dislocated shoulders, broken legs, wrists, elbows, thumbs, fingers…etc

There are many days I can barely walk and picking up a cup of coffee is a pain because of my shoulders, elbows, and wrists. These days are becoming all too common after 25 miles and 3000 vertical feet of single track; especially after a couple of falls on drops or jumps. When I hurt that bad I ride like an old man and I’m sure you would wonder why I am taking up space on your trail.

However, when I am not hurt or am well rested I can still keep up with most young guys on even the most technical single track. I don’t have the lungs to climb like I used to but I can still ride almost anything at a good pace. I still love to bomb down a tight single track and fly when possible.

SO – when you see me struggling up the trail, walking around some of those drops that hurt my back so badly, or around those roots that strain my shoulders so badly – do you think – “why is that old fart using up my trail” “why is that old fart poking along on a $3000 FS 29er?”

SO – when you see me riding my hardtail mountainbike on a fireroad in San Diego or my Cyclocross bike on a double track near Seattle how do know if you are looking at a:

1) roadie who doesn’t appreciate the wilderness?
2) Photographer looking for a good spot
3) hard core mountain biker trying to find a fast downhill
4) beat up rider who is recently injured and just enjoying the day
5) fitness freak trying to get a cardio workout
6) visitor who is lost and can’t find the single track
7) A single track rider on his way home

OR – when you see me slowly riding my FS 29er on single track with no effort or speed how do you know if you are looking at a:

1) good mountain biker just enjoying the scenery
2) busted up rider waiting for his collarbone to heal
3) photographer with a helmet cam looking for that special shot
4) old fart who wore himself out earlier in the day and is just trying to survive till he finds his car
5) old fart who is just learning to ride single track
6) a very good rider on blood thinners who can’t take any chances until his therapy is done

OR – when you see me bombing down a fast multi-switchback rock covered single track on an ancient hardtail how do you know if you are looking at a:

1) very good old school rider who just never grew up
2) very good rider who can’t afford anything else
3) very good rider who has tried and dislikes FS bikes
4) FS 29er who broke his good bike and is waiting for parts

I am or personally know (brother, nephews who are serious riders/racers) cyclists that fit every one of the categories I list above – I and they are probably well qualified to call ourselves hardcore mountain bikers but in each situation above we would fall, given your casual observation, outside your range of acceptable behavior or attitude for a “real” mountain biker.

I do not understand your concern about “i'm upset, the reason it bothers me, is because these guys have input on what trails to build, and end up building boring trails.”

Where does that come from? If you are riding boring trails – then you are not looking very hard for exciting trails – at least here on the West Coast.

Here in the PacNw the trail builders are going crazy with hundreds of miles of new, improved, and well-maintained trail. They build a wide variety of trails and I never lack for tight technical single track nor do I lack for wide-open fast double track. I spend my winters in San Diego and have found an enormous variety of relatively new trails down there. I ride three or four days a week and can find new or seldom used single track any time I wish.

You then say ” these guys … are tainting the whole idea of mountain biking. these guys say they are mountain bikers, but refuse to try anything out of their comfort zone, and refuse to actually try "mountain biking."

How can you tell what those less-than-pure mountain riders do or think when you are not checking them out and/or judging them? How in the world would you know if they are trying anything outside their comfort zone? Do you watch them that often? How do you find time to ride?

When you see me poking along on my fancy bike – would you know that I was riding technical single track on Mt Rainer 30 years ago or would you assume I am just “refusing to try…actually try mountain biking.” My comfort zone changes from day to day and sometimes I want to fly, crash & burn, and others I just want to cover some miles and see some scenery. How can you tell where my comfort zone is and why should it disturb you if I stay within it today?

Finally you say “they bother me because...they just don't get it, and it's sad. and frustrating. “ - I am sure they don’t get the same thing you do but who is to say your thing is right? Does my 30-year mountain bike “thing” give me a right to judge you and declare that you “don’t get it” ‘cause your approach and attitude is different than mine was in 1981 or 1990? The “thing” changes all the time so why not just be happy with “your thing?” Are we all missing the “thing” because we don’t have the 1974 Marin “thing?”

Each to their own – the world is a wondrous place and we can all find our individual places and attitudes that please us – I see no need to demand that everyone else conform to my attitude and surely do not want everyone else doing my “thing.”

End of rant

PS – I also do wonder about some of those oh-so-clean $3000 FS bikes that have not a scratch on them. How do they ride them without dinging them? OR – why ride them in such a way they don’t get dinged?

crazyb

How do "roadies" act, and how doe,s that differ from some of the "trailers" being discussed in this post?

tanguy frame

i dinginged up my new bike the first time I took it out! Love that first scratch - now i can really beat the snot out of it. unfortunately, i get the snot beaten out of myself just as often!

electrik

Figure it out yourself.

electrik

Wow - You really missed the point(are you a triathlete ), but given all you railed against i can sort of see how you'd make such a mistake.

It starts with your attitude and ends with the bicycle, that is it, that is what the OP is getting at. A lot of these converts bring their **** attitude to the trails and really harsh the vibe. Wear that fancy heart-rate monitor or pose with $5000 of gear on the trail and you're a suspect for carrying the ******* gene.

TacomaSailor

What point did I miss?

What I read in the OP message was "I've got the right attitude and those guys over there have the wrong attitude and that wrong attitude is spoiling my sport 'cause I know what is best for my sport."

You take a look at a bike/rider and what they are doing - you jump to wild ass conclusions about their attitude and abilities. You can know NOTHING about the person you are judging from that casual glance. How in the heck can you know anything about their attitude by looking a bit and talking a bit.

What attitude do I need to start with to make you think I'm a mountain biker? Is that attitude the same one that is acceptable in other parts of the country, or other parts or the world, or at other times in the history of the sport?

I do get a little frustrated with folks who think they have the right attitude and any other is "wrong."

I've been lucky enough to travel the world and spend a lot of time outside the US working and playing. I've learned that no one attitude, approach to life, philosophy, religion, or bike gear is the "one." I've learned that a persons appearance means little for learning their 'attitude."

So - nothing can start with your attitude - 'cause their is no one attitude that is acceptable or approved.

And... just for grins - how does one know that one has the 'correct' attitude and the other you see is incorrect?

IF I've misunderstood the OP - please clarify for me!

vandalarchitect

[sarcasm]
OP, I'm so glad you "get it", I bet if you look around you could find some tree hugging hikers' forum where they rant about how MTB'ers "just don't get it". I mean how could you go out into nature and ride your bike and expect to enjoy it when you're so busy looking for gnarly singletrack or technical descents? It just makes me sad that some people don't "get it".
[/sarcasm]