adamastor

One moment please. So Dessel is the greedy, stupid bastard, because on stage 10 he decided he wanted to try and win the stage??? Pleeeease... He should be admired for that. That's straight thinking. No deals, no cheating, let's play it straight. We both sprint, and the best will win. He has nothing to regret. Mercado in the end was the better one. Dessel even said after the race "Mercado deserved it for the effort done", but at least Dessel gave his 100%, and he should be admired for that.

Laggard

A Postie rider in yellow carried water for Lance a couple years back. And that's a fact, Jack.

adamastor

You're right. And Basso could have won it. And Ullrich. And Pantani, actually. And Armstrong. And Schleck, if he hadn't fallen on his nose 2 weeks before the Tour, then a madman had fallen just in front of him in week 1, making him lose 2 minutes. Then he wouldn't have been depressed, his TT would have been much better,, and and and...

My point is, you will never know, because there are so many parameters guiding everyones performance. Hard to tell, what if...


Fact is, Valverde was very good in the spring on the classics... but Mayo was also very good on Dauphine 3 weeks ago, and yesterday he was 24 minutes down from the winner. What if?

Welcome to the Tour de France

lhbernhardt

Actually, according to WCSN.com (https://www.wcsn.com/article/news.jsp...csn_news&dpre=) the first American to win a stage of the Tour was Davis Phinney. The first American to actually compete in the Tour was Jonathan Boyer. I don't think he ever won a stage.

This brings back memories. I started bike racing in the early 70's in Northern California, and the best riders at that time were a bunch of juniors, among them the Boyer brothers ("Jacques" and Winston) and a young kid named Tom Ritchey, who built his own bikes when he was 15.

-L.

ed073

Jeff Pierce, Champs-Elysees 1987

lhbernhardt

Greedy, yes, but no so much a "stupid bastard" as a victim of a very curious coincidence (reflected in time lost) as a result of his greed.

And I'm not so sure that what transpired was "play it sraight, best will win." He ended up having to pull Mercado the last few kilometers, which made the final sprint hardly a balanced test of who was best. No, I think "straight thinking" would have been looking after the team sponsors, working with Mercado to maintain the time gap, graciously allowing Mercado to take the stage (with all the positive press this brings - I hardly think this would be viewed as cheating, this is what guys who go into yellow jerseys have traditionally done), since Dessel already had the yellow and polka-dot jersies. This would have had further-reaching positive effects (and good karma) than greedily trying to take everything. After all, Mercado would have otherwise got nothing out of the stage. And you never know, Dessel might in future end up in a situation where the favor gets returned.

Now, seeing how Dessel treats his mates in a break, who's going to want to go off the front with him?

- L.

OC Roadie

I haven't had a chance to see today's stage, just the OLN updates on their site. Was Horner supporting Evan's? Obviously, he wasn't there on the Pla-De-Beret, but did he pace him up the earlier climbs? Who else on Lotto can climb?

adamastor

You are right.

But can't you see it? Cycling is like normal life. You are dependent on others. I admire Dessel for what he did, because through his choice of wanting the stage, he knew he had only 10% chance to win it. And still he went for it. And he didn't lie to Mercado and told him. Great, bravo...even if it didn't work out.

If Dessel had won the stage, Mercado couldn't have turned around and said:"That bastard fooled me." Of course Dessel hasn't found a friend in Mercado, but he hasn't found an enemy either. He played straight...

adamastor

I don't always agree with your posts, but this one was a very good one. What about Sastre and Evans then??

Ritterview

Is this with or without the bags of blood in Fuentes' freezer?

lhbernhardt

Yes, I was going to say cycling is just like life. And while I was watching the stage, I was all set to admire Dessel as a real working-class hero, a team rider and one of he few guys yesterday with the guts to do some attacking on a stage where everyone was afraid to attack because of the final long descent, and it paid off big time for him.

But then when I saw that he wasn't going to cooperate with Mercado, I thought, "what are you doing?!" I had seen him beat Mercado in the uphill KOM sprints, so I guessed that he had become overconfident and greedy. So this greed actually made me turn against him, and I was pleased about (and I fully expected) Mercado winning the stage.

Well, at least the guy is honest. And we've seen that sometimes it doesn't pay to "give gifts," as Lance found when he let Pantani win that stage. But I think that situation was different.

- L.

Dubbayoo

No, that's all seven of them. I'm trying to think of the guys that haven't won though and I come up with about the same.

Bob Roll
Jonathon Vaughters
Fred Rodriguez (won a Giro stage)
Christian Van de Velde
Chris Horner
Ron Keifel (won a Giro stage)
Andy Bishop
Norman Alvis
Chann McRae

user0ne

I think Levi might of just had a bad day (TT) and is obviously riding ALOT better.
I hope hes in posistion for a stage win again, sooo close today, i was SCREAMING at him to win

Keith99

As I recall Lance was not too pleased about that.

toshi

+1. His late attacks were pretty weak too.

Merriwether

Good points.

He might have been the beneficiary of generous transcription, but Menchov seems to have good English in his comments on cyclingnews. Perhaps OLN will put a microphone in front of him at least once, now.

Menchov seems for real. Sastre is also a good climber. He's the kind of guy who could pull away from the leaders, win a stage, and pull on the MJ. Then again, he didn't keep up with FL, LL, and DM today. We'll see.

I always took the Hincapie talk to be just an OLN thing. He's an American who could plausibly sell some ad time to American sponsors who don't follow cycling that closely, is all I took it to be. But in case it was something more serious, indeed, it's over now.

I sometimes wonder whether Hincapie regrets all those years toting water for Lance. When he looks at someone like Boonin, for example, does he wonder what might have been? GH and TB are similar riders in many respects, but TB took off on his own early on. If George had left the pack-muling behind early in his career, could he have pulled off some better results in the one-day races?

I think Cunego is for real, myself. He just needs some more EPO, or a better coach, or something. He's not going to do anything special this July, though.

As someone else mentioned, USPS had a guy in yellow a few years ago they made go back and get water. There were howls of outrage from race fans everywhere. USPS was quick to claim that the rider-- I forget who it was-- did it "on his own", and that JB and Lance "never would have let him" if they had known. Hmmnnn..... It wouldn't have shocked me if Lance had told the guy to take the MJ off so he could wipe all of the sweat off of his face, myself, but each of us will have to decide for himself.

Thylacine

Um, Levi is a GC contender. Why would he do a Simon Gerans and drag someone else up a hill? He didn't freeload off anyone any more than Evans, Landis or Menchov did. You have no idea what you're talking about.

It's early days, we haven't even got to the big hills yet.

twbradford

That's right fellas....it is still 9 more stages to the finish. The Alps are yet ahead. There is a TT ahead. Anything can happen. Mechanical problems, accidents, illness....

Take a read of Chris Carmichaels take on the stage.....

By Chris Carmichael


Stage 11 of the 2006 Tour de France provided the first opportunity to see which riders could bridge the gap between being yellow jersey favorites on paper and real contenders based on performance. The two men who stood out most were Floyd Landis and Denis Menchov because they have both performed most consistently through the first 11 stages of the race. However, even though men like Cadel Evans and Andreas Kloden lost some time today, the Alps are coming next week and tables can easily turn with a transition to a new mountain range.

The first mountain range vs. the second
Fans and riders have to be careful not to completely segment the Tour de France into separate parts, because even though we may talk about the sprinters’ stages and the mountain stages, everything that precedes any day of this race affects the riders’ performance on that stage. Some racers ride better in the first set of mountain stages, whether they are in the Pyrenees or Alps, because they’re fresher. They may fade as fatigue sets in and lose time in the third week of the race. This has been the case, in the past, for men like Gilberto Simoni and Carlos Sastre.

Other riders perform better in the second set of mountains because they adapt to the stress of the Tour de France and actually get stronger in the third week of the race. Jan Ullrich was the classic example of this phenomenon, and it was not uncommon to see him well off the pace in the first few mountain stages and then coming storming back in the final week. Knowing that was the case, Lance Armstrong used that against Ullrich when the two were dueling for the yellow jersey. Lance attacked early and built a sizable lead in the first set of mountains when Ullrich was still slower, in part because he couldn’t predict just how strong the German would get in the third week. Since Ullrich grew harder to beat as the Tour de France progressed, it was important to gain as much time on him as possible when he was most vulnerable.

Andreas Kloden of T-Mobile has some traits in common with his countryman Ullrich. He finished 1:31 behind Denis Menchov, Floyd Landis, and Levi Leipheimer today and now sits 2:29 behind Landis in the overall classification, but he’s still a threat because of the difficulty of the Alpine stages and his tendency to get stronger as the race progresses.

The Pyrenees vs. the Alps
Besides their positions in the second or third week of the Tour de France, there are differences between the Pyrenees and Alps that can affect how riders perform. The climbs in the Pyrenees tend to suit climbers with more explosive power because the pitches change frequently. Many of the roads in the Alps have steadier grades, whereas climbs along the border between France and Spain are more like stair-step ascents: the road pitches up steeply, then levels off, and then pitches up again. It’s difficult to maintain a steady rhythm, and some riders are more adept to changing their cadences or power outputs while still staying at a high speed. These riders find success in the Pyrenees, but climbers who prefer to grind out a steady effort all the way up a mountain often suffer in these mountains and excel in the Alps.

The Pyrenees are also hot, really hot. And even if the thermometer reads the exact same temperature for stages in the two mountain ranges, riding a stage at 90 degrees Fahrenheit in the Pyrenees feels ten times worse. The roads in this region tend to be rougher, more of the tar-and-gravel surface than a smooth asphalt, and they just radiate heat. There’s less shade and the sun beats down on you, and then you can feel the hot air coming up off the road too. It’s like riding in an oven. Even when the weather is hot in the Alps, you don’t have all the accompanying factors that make the Pyrenees so miserable.

With two transitional stages and a rest day coming in the next three days, the next rendezvous with the high mountains comes next Tuesday with the most famous summit finish of them all: l’Alp d’Huez. Especially coming right after a rest day, it’s very possible that riders who suffered today could be at the front on Stage 15 and riders who looked great today could be off the back. Neither George Hincapie nor Paolo Savoldelli are going to make up 23 min to challenge for the yellow jersey but they can rebound to support Jose Azevedo, who can still ride himself into the top 10.

maalea

Get Real, Dude. If you think Levi is a wheelsucker check out stage 4 of the Dauphine when Menchov and Moreau latched on to Levi's wheel through the middle and upper slopes of Mt. Ventoux.

It's called being smart. If you're not looking to get into yellow, ride the other man's wheel. Floyd had to put time into the other GC men. Evans, Klodi and others, make Floyd work for it. Plus, if Menchov didn't jump on Levi's wheel the first dig, Floyd may have let him go. Floyd can spare a minute to Levi with no real impact on his lead.

Iron Chef

Nah! They have a leader, that Belgian dude that talks on the radio and drives like a maniac.

They are suffering from getting their butts kicked syndrome. Stage 7 I thought was a pretty good indicator of what was to come.... But then again I Levi was done too. He surprised the heck out of me today.

Allen H

It's gotta fry the French that Dessel lost the yellow today to Landis by exactly Floyd's time bonus, when Dessel diddled with Mercado the last 2 km yesterday; Dessel easily gave 3 or 4 times that time gap in the leadout to the finish yesterday.

Because that means an American wears the maillot jaune this Bastille Day.

Keith99

It was Victor Hugo Pena. He was in yellow at the ends of stages 4-6 in 2003. Anyone who has read this site for a while knows I'm pretty mercyless wehn people inflate the virtues of Lance. As I see it he never dominated a TDF. (Try 52 and 69 for comparison). He is the only 5 time TDF winner to not have a double. (actually all the rest have 2 doubles). I could go on and on.

BUT

Neither he nor team management sent Pena back for water.

maalea

"Dammit I Cannotgo keeps showing his Giro win was against mediocre/off their game competition, he still can't even beat Simoni."

You may be right on the money about the 2004 Giro but this kid has close to another decade in the peloton in front of him. Everyone talks about how young Popo is but he is about two years older than Cunego.

OrionKhan

Bah...Climbing sucks and is for the skinny little bicycle fairies. Now did you see McEwen take that first intermediate sprint today? Trying to tighten his grip on that green jersey. That was the highlight of the stage!

blue_neon

wow...Best stage so far!