marin1

Nice to see someone going with their brain instead of their heart

ninjaman

Thank you. And it's not that ASO are turning down Contador or Leipheimer, I'm sure if they can get themselves to other teams, they will be welcomed.

RockyMtnMerlin

You may have a point here but not sure about Rasmussen. I thought his team pulled him out of the Tour not ASO or UCI.

adam

You have to wonder if they changed the team name in the off-season, made changes to their drug testing, etc. and made big news about 'we are going to change - this is how' they wouldn't be in this mess.

Maybe TdF don't want the general public thinking "I remember Astana last year, Vino, etc. - aren't they the ones who got caught doing all the doping". As simple as a new team name could have helped them...

You assume Levi, Alberto, Johan, etc. all thought about this before moving over for this season and thought 'no way are they going to deny the TdF champion's team'.

This will get interesting.

ninjaman

Yes, you're right. But ASO had been putting pressure on Rabobank before they sacked Rassmussen, and also stated that they wouldn't have allowed Rassmussen to compete in the TDF if they had known he lied about his whereabouts. Rabobank did their best to distance themselves from him, and make it seem like their immediate reaction. ASO decided it is better to preemptively remove the maillot jaune than to have a scandal after it's been won.

madli

The lack of consistency by the ASO in excluding teams tainted by doping, tells me be the riders of Astana were caught in the middle of the ongoing power struggle between the UCI & ASO! I applaud neither as it is a power-play pure and simple! Greed and politics! Only the fans and riders tainted by association are truly punished! Probably end up in some courtroom.

bbunk

Why is it just Astana? Cofidis dropped the whole team from the Tour last year also due to dopping problems, or is it okay because they are a French team?

bikingshearer 

Using an ad hominem attack, even a fairly mild and somewhat indirect one, on people who disagree with you is not exactly cricket. This is one where reasonable minds can, and obviously do, disagree.

On your side, the Astana name has, in the past two years, been badly tainted. And with reason. And ASO is saying that they trusted Astana last year when they implemented changes, and Astana still fouled the proverbial nest. That supports ASO's decision to bounce them. Sayng it's a case of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" oversimplifies things, of course, but it's a pretty powerful and legitimate point.

On the other side of the coin, Astana appears have made wholesale changes in the entire structure of the team, including making for a more transparent doping control operation. Their big guns of the past are gone. Their big guns of this year have no (Leipheimer, Kloden) or, at worst, vaguely rumored with zero real back-up (Contador) connection to past doping issues. This supports a conclusion that this is unfairly punishing the present team for the transgressions of past riders and management who are no longer there to suffer the consequences. (Something that that NCAA has specialized in over the years, BTW.)

There are more facts and factors than these on each side. Ultimately, it comes down to how you weigh those factors in the balance. You think ASO was correct. Others disagree. But both sides in this have a logical, reasonable basis for their respective positions. Saying or implying that those who disagree with you do not does a disservice to the discussion.

GGDub

Astana needed to be much more proactive with their doping plan. To me at least, they have made it seem like they are begrudingly accepting someone else's plan (Team CSC), rather than developing their own, very high profile plan. T

Gee3

I can't say I totally agree. Why develop your own plan when Daamsgard, I think his name is, already has a top tiered program with CSC that everyone has applauded. If you want to shed the past, that is one way to do it. Why reinvent the wheel when a very good one is already available? Especially since it'll take a pretty penny to come up with and implement a whole new wheel?

Also, I think for the ASO to say they are excluding them for past incidents is a weak arguement. Someone else brought up Riis and CSC, Rabobank, Cofidis, and others as still being allowed to ride. Yet they had just as big, if not bigger, an impact on the negative image of the tour last year. Yet they still get the invite. If they wish to be fair they should clear the whole board, not just single out one team.

Or maybe Astana needs to be more vocal about their doping program and image. They need to let everyone know that they are a new and cleaner team with an excellent doping program. Come to think of it, they seemed pretty low key unlike CSC, T-Mobile, Slipstream and others touting their programs. Maybe that's the problem. They didn't play the game to show that their image is clean. Maybe that's the team PR's fault for not yelling it from the top's of the mountains?

Green Jager

Any way you might want to slice this it is good thing. A team that burned the race and the sports two years in a row is out of the biggest race in the world. The teams revolting , I doubt it the sponsers are not going to hear of it, the Tour is to big a show place. Remember they want their names out there that is the benefit to them. If the race is dirty it cannot help them at all.

Secondly it also sends a message to teams that if they do not race clean they are not going to get to race in the big show(s). If this in any way helps clean up the sport and maybe other sports catch on it might be the best thing we have seen in years. Once teams and individuals know that the events and the sport is serious hopefully we will all benefit. It is painful and not everyone will like it.

GGDub

I guess this is what I was trying to get at. Since they're announcement of adopting the CSC program they've been very low key. If you go to CSC's site, their anti-doping plan is right there to see, with a summary of results. You have to dig a lot deeper on the Astana site just to find a PR saying they're planning on implementing CSC's plan.

Given they, along with Phonak, became the poster child for doping programs, you'd think the new management would've done more to dispel this image right away. Also, its not like US Postal/Discovery has/had a very good image in Europe, so just bringing Bruyneel on board, hardly changes that image.

Hornbiker

I am really frustrated about Astana being excluded from the Tour because of the ASO's inconsistency. Why only Astana and not Cofidis, when Christian Moreni also tested positive during the Tour? I read a quote from the ASO that said they are allowing Cofidis back because they left the race when Moreni's positive test came up, without the TdF having to ask them to leave. Oh, I see. They had to "ask" Astana to leave when Vino tested positive, but Cofidis supposedly left without that request. That's the basis they're using to differentiate the two? Lame, lame, LAME.

Astana, a team with biological passports and the same additional, independent anti-doping program as CSC, is not invited because of past problems with different team members and different management, but other teams without these strict doping controls are allowed to slip through? And other teams with doping problems by members are still invited? So much for credibility. The TdF has rendered the race nearly irrelevant.

bikeoutfit

I can't agree that ASO is trying to do anything about the well being of the sport . . . only what gives them better sales & profits IMHO. If it happens to help the sport that is a side benefit. It is about Control and putting it to the UCI. OK, I admit they were asking for it, but working together is a much better way. I have hoped for a long time that the riders would go on strike - they and the fans are the ones that lose out in all this political/money making BS, again IMHO. I do hope Danielson does well today in California. www.cycling.tv live right now. Was at the finish in Sacramento yesterday and our Arnold gave the awards! Exciting and Cipo was on the podium. My my, we are coming of age in the USA!
Dick Powell

Porter20

I am here to eat a little crow; cause there was no way I would think that ASO would not allow Astana into the tour.

With that being said, I am highly disappointed that Astana is not in the tour just because of the talent on the team. Also, I think it takes away from the strength of the field of the tour. Even if the big names go to other teams, it won't be the same. You have drug testing in place by the UCI for a reason. Trust them to catch them if they are dirty and then celebrate the fact you are cleaning it up. As far as I am concerned, if the ASO is worried about them being dirty then assign testers to each member of Astana and check them before each ride & after each ride, but not allowing them in is very Busch League in my book.

pwog

Check this out: https://www.letleviride.com/

bellweatherman

They need to go after Bruyneel & anyone associated with the old USPS/Discovery team. A permanent ban on those guys would start cleaning up the drug culture in cycling.

kenyan_boy

I'm done with professional sports. All of them: Soccer/Futbol, American Football, Baseball, Ice Hockey, Basketball, Cycling, Cricket.

All the teams in my area suck:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tampa Bay Lightning
Tampa Bay (Devil) Rays
Tampa Bay Mutiny (now defunct)

Drugs, scandals, etc etc etc. When you're getting paid so much, why do it? Why? Don't they realize that many of us grew up with them as idols.

Overpaid, underperforming athletes. What a waste of time, and taxpayer money (when that is involved to bring a team in and to keep them there).

I'm sticking to watching college sports. Go USF Bulls!

I thought cycling would be the one standout. Was I stupid or what?

Donegal

Now it comes out that T-Mobile was rotten to the core. Management, Owners, Team Doctors all the way down to the soigneurs. A sophisticated drug management program was in place for the whole team. High Road is a good name. After a few small changes, some good ass-kissing, we are going to the Tour.

It really makes sense to exclude Astana, new riders, new management, full drug testing regime. Who will miss the defending Champion, the American Road Race Champion and third place finisher last year; or even a rider who finished on the podium twice? The strength of the team is indisputable, the reason for exclusion has nothing do to with doping. Politics, egos and money. I feel sorry for Johan and the entire Astana squad.

Donegal

Now it comes out that T-Mobile was rotten to the core. Management, Owners, Team Doctors all the way down to the soigneurs. A sophisticated drug management program was in place for the whole team. High Road is a good name. After a few small changes, some good ass-kissing, we are going to the Tour.

It really makes sense to exclude Astana, new riders, new management, full drug testing regime. Who will miss the defending Champion, the American Road Race Champion and third place finisher last year; or even a rider who finished on the podium twice? The strength of the team is indisputable, the reason for exclusion has nothing do to with doping. Politics, egos and money. I feel sorry for Johan and the entire Astana squad.

When cycling needs a shot in the arm, ASO gives it another kick in the a*!. ASO wants to sell papers and will sensationalize any indiscretion like they are the only reason it was exposed. The Tour has been rife with drugs since inception (right or wrong) and they blame cycling. I am so tired of the B.S. bad publicity that I could puke. If there is not a problem at the Tour, they will create one. Cycling fans talk about a great ride, excellent strategy, team effort, etc. The Tour press will focus on problems, attempting to negate the UCI, and further their own cause.

BikeDork02

I find it amazing that they say "The 20 best teams in the world will be at the tour" That is pretty humorous considering they are inviting Slipstream. They are by no means proven as one of the best in the world, yet. Yes they have some good individual cyclists, but as a team in Europe they have yet to prove themselves. In Paris-Nice they finished behind Skil-Shimano in the overall team classification and only beat one team. So they were second to last. Im sorry, but with all do respect to Skil-Shimano but there is a reason some teams are not invited to events. The Tour is one of the fastest overall races in the world, and I wouldnt be surprised to see over half the slipstream team not make the time cut once they hit the first climbs.

ninjaman

How on Earth could anyone possibly feel sorry for Johan Bruyneel, quite possibly the luckiest SOB in history? He somehow managed to escape the spotlight when all the sh*t hit the fan at ONCE, then his sophisticated medical program at USP/Disco miraculously slipped below the radar, while he wins 8 tours in 9 years as well as builds himself a nice nest egg to fall back on. Then he saves face when he couldn't find a sponsor for Disco by bowing out 'honorably' and retiring. Then he gets lured back in with a megabuck contract with Astana! And he doesn't even ride in the car anymore! How can you feel sorry for him???

P.S. he also has a plasticky barbie doll wife, he's living the dream!

andychang

Correct. Astana is out of the tour this year. The official list of the 20 teams is here. https://www.letour.fr/2008/TDF/COURSE...us.html#zone12

GO SLIPSTREAM CHIPOTLE!