Your take on the most...
07-26-09, 01:25 PM
#26
Magnesium Dogmatic
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,939
Bikes: Look 585 Ultra, Pinarello Dogma, Pegoretti Duende, Orbea, Cannondale Capo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
True, but like I said, remember the context. I'm not using the term Asian in a vacuum - I mean it in a physical, sporting sense. The Central Asians are far stronger than Oriental Asians physically, and are almost like Caucasians in that respect. Going by the continental argument, then Russians are arguably Asians as well, but that line of argument is pointless when we're talking about physical strength.
My point is that the TdF is one of the toughest, if not the toughest, sporting event in the world. For an Asian who's of the branch typically regarded as physically weaker i.e. the Orients, completing the race is a feat. If all Asians were as strong as the Central Asians, then of course I won't mention this at all. Please try to understand this from our perspective, as 'Asians'. You're clearly seeing this very scientifically (and correctly, I might add), but unfortunately that's missing the point in this case. I don't want to use the term 'yellow-skinned'.
My point is that the TdF is one of the toughest, if not the toughest, sporting event in the world. For an Asian who's of the branch typically regarded as physically weaker i.e. the Orients, completing the race is a feat. If all Asians were as strong as the Central Asians, then of course I won't mention this at all. Please try to understand this from our perspective, as 'Asians'. You're clearly seeing this very scientifically (and correctly, I might add), but unfortunately that's missing the point in this case. I don't want to use the term 'yellow-skinned'.
07-26-09, 08:34 PM
#27
Allegheny Mtns of WV
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hampshire County, West Virginia
Posts: 310
Bikes: Giant Cypress
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The point that I'm trying to make is that whether a person is from Central Asia or Southeast Asia is pointless. THey are all asians.
Now to your point, yes they are the first Oriental Asian or Mongoloid Asians to finish Le Tour not the first Asians to complete the race. By saying they are not asian is incorrect and elitist. Mexicans, Canadiens and Americans are all North Americans. By your standards, Mexicans shouldn't be classified as North Americans because they aren't white. This is a falacy to believe this way as your way of thinking is a falacy. First Oriental Asians, YES. First Asians, NO. Be proud of your heritage and hopefully these Oriental Asians will inspire others to take up cycling.
Now to your point, yes they are the first Oriental Asian or Mongoloid Asians to finish Le Tour not the first Asians to complete the race. By saying they are not asian is incorrect and elitist. Mexicans, Canadiens and Americans are all North Americans. By your standards, Mexicans shouldn't be classified as North Americans because they aren't white. This is a falacy to believe this way as your way of thinking is a falacy. First Oriental Asians, YES. First Asians, NO. Be proud of your heritage and hopefully these Oriental Asians will inspire others to take up cycling.
True, but like I said, remember the context. I'm not using the term Asian in a vacuum - I mean it in a physical, sporting sense. The Central Asians are far stronger than Oriental Asians physically, and are almost like Caucasians in that respect. Going by the continental argument, then Russians are arguably Asians as well, but that line of argument is pointless when we're talking about physical strength.
My point is that the TdF is one of the toughest, if not the toughest, sporting event in the world. For an Asian who's of the branch typically regarded as physically weaker i.e. the Orients, completing the race is a feat. If all Asians were as strong as the Central Asians, then of course I won't mention this at all. Please try to understand this from our perspective, as 'Asians'. You're clearly seeing this very scientifically (and correctly, I might add), but unfortunately that's missing the point in this case. I don't want to use the term 'yellow-skinned'.
My point is that the TdF is one of the toughest, if not the toughest, sporting event in the world. For an Asian who's of the branch typically regarded as physically weaker i.e. the Orients, completing the race is a feat. If all Asians were as strong as the Central Asians, then of course I won't mention this at all. Please try to understand this from our perspective, as 'Asians'. You're clearly seeing this very scientifically (and correctly, I might add), but unfortunately that's missing the point in this case. I don't want to use the term 'yellow-skinned'.
07-26-09, 08:35 PM
#28
Allegheny Mtns of WV
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hampshire County, West Virginia
Posts: 310
Bikes: Giant Cypress
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-26-09, 09:10 PM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-26-09, 09:18 PM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The point that I'm trying to make is that whether a person is from Central Asia or Southeast Asia is pointless. THey are all asians.
Now to your point, yes they are the first Oriental Asian or Mongoloid Asians to finish Le Tour not the first Asians to complete the race. By saying they are not asian is incorrect and elitist. Mexicans, Canadiens and Americans are all North Americans. By your standards, Mexicans shouldn't be classified as North Americans because they aren't white. This is a falacy to believe this way as your way of thinking is a falacy. First Oriental Asians, YES. First Asians, NO. Be proud of your heritage and hopefully these Oriental Asians will inspire others to take up cycling.
Now to your point, yes they are the first Oriental Asian or Mongoloid Asians to finish Le Tour not the first Asians to complete the race. By saying they are not asian is incorrect and elitist. Mexicans, Canadiens and Americans are all North Americans. By your standards, Mexicans shouldn't be classified as North Americans because they aren't white. This is a falacy to believe this way as your way of thinking is a falacy. First Oriental Asians, YES. First Asians, NO. Be proud of your heritage and hopefully these Oriental Asians will inspire others to take up cycling.
By this argument too, it can be said that the Japanese and Koreans hail from the same stock as the Chinese. Thus, the affinity.
07-26-09, 09:28 PM
#31
Allegheny Mtns of WV
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hampshire County, West Virginia
Posts: 310
Bikes: Giant Cypress
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes, but identity is different. Yes a white american kid would probably identify more closely with a white european from Britain than with a mexican, but that doesn't mean that mexicans are not north americans!
Idenity has nothing to do with it!
Idenity has nothing to do with it!
Like I said, you're right scientifically - I agree with you on that. But face it - there are some anthropological truths that slip under the radar. People are different, even within the same continent. And that difference is manifested in cultural, religious, linguistic, social, color - and in this case, physical characteristics. Its not a pretty truth, but it IS the truth. Even within China, the Central Asian minorities are seen as a different ethnic group, and hardly Asian. Asiatic, yes. But Asian to most still mean the Orient stock, as you rightly pointed out. For that reason, despite all our historic antagonisms, a Chinese would feel more affinity to a Japanese when it comes to something collectively 'Asian'. It might be bigotry, it might be prejudice - but us Asians do feel that way. In any case, riders such as Vonokourov or the Tashkent Terror are more Caucasian physically - so their performances in the Tour hardly has any ramifications on Asia ex-Central Asia. But seeing a yellow-skinned (the term posters here seem to prefer, despite my misgivings) rider complete the Tour and even put up a fight in the Champs Elysse - now that's a different thing altogether. Its an affinity of sorts. To use your example, an white American kid will probably identify more with a European rider than a Mexican, even though North America is home to the US, Canada, and Mexico.
By this argument too, it can be said that the Japanese and Koreans hail from the same stock as the Chinese. Thus, the affinity.
By this argument too, it can be said that the Japanese and Koreans hail from the same stock as the Chinese. Thus, the affinity.
07-26-09, 09:32 PM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thank god you made legit and sensible arguments, unlike some posters.
07-26-09, 09:50 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Me too.
Most disappointing - Tom Boonen
Most drop off after winning the Giro - Denis Menchov, it likes he just said "screw it."
Most under the radar team with good results - Liquigas: KOM, 2 riders in top 10, 2 of top 3 young riders
07-26-09, 11:37 PM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 663
Bikes: Litespeed, Medici, Gary Fisher
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-27-09, 12:53 AM
#36
pluralis majestatis
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: you rope
Posts: 4,206
Bikes: a DuhRosa
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Asian
/ayshn, -&ulzh;n/
• noun a person from Asia or a person of Asian descent.
• adjective relating to Asia.
— USAGE In Britain Asian is used to refer to people who come from (or whose parents came from) the Indian subcontinent, while in North America it is used to refer to people from the Far East.
/ayshn, -&ulzh;n/
• noun a person from Asia or a person of Asian descent.
• adjective relating to Asia.
— USAGE In Britain Asian is used to refer to people who come from (or whose parents came from) the Indian subcontinent, while in North America it is used to refer to people from the Far East.
07-27-09, 01:14 AM
#37
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
would have to go with skil-shimano & lampre. barely registered on the radar screen; a couple of moments here & there. after claiming the team classifications at the giro & tour, will astana also
win it at the vuelta? anyone know if a team has won all 3 gt team classifications in the same
year?
win it at the vuelta? anyone know if a team has won all 3 gt team classifications in the same
year?
07-27-09, 06:31 AM
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
07-27-09, 06:50 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Most disappointing crash-outs:
Jens Voight, for obvious reasons. He rides with a lot of heart, and his crash was just nasty.
Levi Leipheimer - I was looking forward to seeing what he could do in the later mountain stages.
Jens Voight, for obvious reasons. He rides with a lot of heart, and his crash was just nasty.
Levi Leipheimer - I was looking forward to seeing what he could do in the later mountain stages.
07-27-09, 07:06 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto area
Posts: 1,124
Bikes: Cervelo, Pinarello, Specialized
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The point that I'm trying to make is that whether a person is from Central Asia or Southeast Asia is pointless. THey are all asians.
Now to your point, yes they are the first Oriental Asian or Mongoloid Asians to finish Le Tour not the first Asians to complete the race. By saying they are not asian is incorrect and elitist. Mexicans, Canadiens and Americans are all North Americans. By your standards, Mexicans shouldn't be classified as North Americans because they aren't white. This is a falacy to believe this way as your way of thinking is a falacy. First Oriental Asians, YES. First Asians, NO. Be proud of your heritage and hopefully these Oriental Asians will inspire others to take up cycling.
Now to your point, yes they are the first Oriental Asian or Mongoloid Asians to finish Le Tour not the first Asians to complete the race. By saying they are not asian is incorrect and elitist. Mexicans, Canadiens and Americans are all North Americans. By your standards, Mexicans shouldn't be classified as North Americans because they aren't white. This is a falacy to believe this way as your way of thinking is a falacy. First Oriental Asians, YES. First Asians, NO. Be proud of your heritage and hopefully these Oriental Asians will inspire others to take up cycling.
07-27-09, 07:14 AM
#42
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 281
Bikes: Limongi custom road; GT Avalanche 1.0
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Not all Canadiens are North Americans.
07-27-09, 08:01 AM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Denver
Posts: 619
Bikes: Road and Mountain
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Disastorous: Evans and Boonen, hands down. It was disastorous for Levi as well considering he was well placed on GC with the ITT still to come. How about team Quick Step? Who?
Most improved: Besides Wiggins who would also fit into the "most surprising" category, I'd say Nibali. He is going to be a force - excellent climber and not too bad ITT. And Liquigas is a top-notch outfit.
Most impressed by: Cavendish and team Columbia-HTC. This type of dominance is rare in sports. Contador's ITT was very impressive and his accelerations on climbs are superhuman. I think Garmin getting 2 in the top ten and 2nd on Team GC was impressive...though no stage wins.
Most inspired by: Lance. Everybody doubted him and he was on the podium...nice work. I'm 36 and just getting into racing this year, so Lance doing what he did at age 38 is very inspiring to me.
Most improved: Besides Wiggins who would also fit into the "most surprising" category, I'd say Nibali. He is going to be a force - excellent climber and not too bad ITT. And Liquigas is a top-notch outfit.
Most impressed by: Cavendish and team Columbia-HTC. This type of dominance is rare in sports. Contador's ITT was very impressive and his accelerations on climbs are superhuman. I think Garmin getting 2 in the top ten and 2nd on Team GC was impressive...though no stage wins.
Most inspired by: Lance. Everybody doubted him and he was on the podium...nice work. I'm 36 and just getting into racing this year, so Lance doing what he did at age 38 is very inspiring to me.
07-27-09, 09:04 AM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NYC - where bicycles go to die
Posts: 1,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There is some hilarious late nineteenth-early twentieth century pseudo-science in this thread. I'm just sayin'.
07-27-09, 09:20 AM
#46
Unique Vintage Steel
Cool it with the name calling. The community guidelines are still in effect in this subforum. Thank you.
07-27-09, 09:21 AM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,655
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
To some degree this is true, but you are selling Sastre short. If you change the race a little by elimination the TTT and add a couple more uphill mountain finishes then Sastre would have most likely finished in the top 5-6. Assuming that he was in top form, which he may not have been this year.
