My (slightly tearful) reaction to the Armstrong news
01-12-13, 06:36 PM
#1026
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Once upon a time, there was this famous popular singer who was involved in a settlement with the parents of a young boy. After the singer died, everyone forgot about the case and made his estate get rich by buying his music. The fans still loved him and even the young children went to his funeral even though they were not around when he recorded much of his music. Somehow we still listen to the music and we separate the man from the music that we somehow still enjoy.
01-12-13, 06:41 PM
#1027
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Please don't forget that some of the years that Lance won in the TDF it's been estimated the top 30 were possibly doping. It was pretty much the only way to go if you wanted to win. They also are not giving the award to anyone else because only one rider in the 7 winning years in the top 3 that has not been implicated in doping.
Look to the future not back.
Look to the future not back.
01-12-13, 07:12 PM
#1028
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I have an inkling that this is a PR set-up. The interview is being done on Armstrong's home turf, literally, at his home. If it wasn't a PR set-up, it would have been on Winfrey's terms in her home studio.
This is a strategic action that may or may not head off what is revealed at Bruyneel's arbitration hearing. Bruyneel is the wild card in all this.
I doubt Armstrong will admit to doping, but will lay the blame for all the other team members being doped well and truly at the feet of Bruyneel. He may say that he could only win the TdF with the efforts of his team, but those riders were much weaker than he was, and needed assistance. Bruyneel and Ferrari were the ideal pair to get the most out of the team.
He might even say that he was was accidentally contaminated with EPO and the masking agents during rehydration transfusions during all this and that is why his tests turned negative then, but the samples don't when they have been retested.
Or maybe he will go back to that old saw, that the cancer treatment made his body do all these extraordinary things, such as mimic EPO.
Ultimately, I think it likely that Brunyeel will be the scapegoat. And if he is, don't be surprised if Armstrong has given him a huge payoff to be it.
What else haven't I thought of...
This is a strategic action that may or may not head off what is revealed at Bruyneel's arbitration hearing. Bruyneel is the wild card in all this.
I doubt Armstrong will admit to doping, but will lay the blame for all the other team members being doped well and truly at the feet of Bruyneel. He may say that he could only win the TdF with the efforts of his team, but those riders were much weaker than he was, and needed assistance. Bruyneel and Ferrari were the ideal pair to get the most out of the team.
He might even say that he was was accidentally contaminated with EPO and the masking agents during rehydration transfusions during all this and that is why his tests turned negative then, but the samples don't when they have been retested.
Or maybe he will go back to that old saw, that the cancer treatment made his body do all these extraordinary things, such as mimic EPO.
Ultimately, I think it likely that Brunyeel will be the scapegoat. And if he is, don't be surprised if Armstrong has given him a huge payoff to be it.
What else haven't I thought of...
01-12-13, 07:39 PM
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WHy her you ask??
Simple, the ***** offered him the most money
Simple, the ***** offered him the most money
01-12-13, 07:59 PM
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You know what would be great half way through the interview Oprah says there some old friends who like to see Lance and Greg Lemond, Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis walk out. Then Oprah says "Can we now have one big group hug and let bygones be bygones".
It would be beautiful a tear comes to my eye just dreaming of it...NOT!
It would be beautiful a tear comes to my eye just dreaming of it...NOT!
01-12-13, 08:02 PM
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Why can't we just stay away from the talk about whether the other Armstrong co-conspirators got their just dessert or not.
Let us just look at it in terms of FRAUD, that is, LA claimed to be who he was not. All the accolades/riches/admiration/fawning derived from a LIE.
And I don't like frauds or phonies.
Let us just look at it in terms of FRAUD, that is, LA claimed to be who he was not. All the accolades/riches/admiration/fawning derived from a LIE.
And I don't like frauds or phonies.
01-12-13, 08:32 PM
#1032
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01-12-13, 08:47 PM
#1033
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01-12-13, 09:53 PM
#1035
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Why can't we just stay away from the talk about whether the other Armstrong co-conspirators got their just dessert or not.
Let us just look at it in terms of FRAUD, that is, LA claimed to be who he was not. All the accolades/riches/admiration/fawning derived from a LIE.
And I don't like frauds or phonies.
Let us just look at it in terms of FRAUD, that is, LA claimed to be who he was not. All the accolades/riches/admiration/fawning derived from a LIE.
And I don't like frauds or phonies.
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
01-12-13, 10:29 PM
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So, why did LA fight the doping allegations (which had been around forever) as vigorously as he did, if he did not think he was defrauding somebody/the public? I mean, he could have come out a long time ago about his doping if he did not think he was a fraud. Why hide something like that and pretend otherwise if you did not think it is a SHAM?
To answer your question about whom he defrauded, he certainly defrauded all those people who bought items he endorsed, and also those people who contributed to Livestrong because of LA's involvement and reputation (derived from "winning" all those TdF titles). For starters.
To answer your question about whom he defrauded, he certainly defrauded all those people who bought items he endorsed, and also those people who contributed to Livestrong because of LA's involvement and reputation (derived from "winning" all those TdF titles). For starters.
01-12-13, 10:31 PM
#1037
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01-12-13, 10:55 PM
#1038
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Vanity Fair has in interesting take on what might happen, based on the Soap Oprah's previous interviews with fallen stars, her penchant for the tear factor, and surprise guests:
https://www.vanityfair.com/online/osc...ing-titles-cry
The question is: Can she make Armstrong cry?
Maybe not; she has been friends with Armstrong for a while, it seems.
https://www.vanityfair.com/online/osc...ing-titles-cry
The question is: Can she make Armstrong cry?
Maybe not; she has been friends with Armstrong for a while, it seems.
01-12-13, 11:52 PM
#1039
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To answer your question about whom he defrauded, he certainly defrauded all those people who bought items he endorsed, and also those people who contributed to Livestrong because of LA's involvement and reputation (derived from "winning" all those TdF titles). For starters.
01-13-13, 12:20 AM
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Why the facepalm?
I take it you don't think LA was/is a fraud. If so, to each his own. I certainly think so. And so do many reasonable people.
Also, what are people like you gonna do when he comes out and admit he doped all thru his career? I bet you'll say you don't believe him, eh?
And, in a civilized society, stealing is stealing, be it stolen money, property or honor.
And defrauding could mean "obtaining by deception or artifice", and LA did achieve his fame and the resultant wealth by deception. Won't you say?
I take it you don't think LA was/is a fraud. If so, to each his own. I certainly think so. And so do many reasonable people.
Also, what are people like you gonna do when he comes out and admit he doped all thru his career? I bet you'll say you don't believe him, eh?
And, in a civilized society, stealing is stealing, be it stolen money, property or honor.
And defrauding could mean "obtaining by deception or artifice", and LA did achieve his fame and the resultant wealth by deception. Won't you say?
Last edited by Jed19; 01-13-13 at 12:29 AM.
01-13-13, 02:42 AM
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5 words will be uttered.. Johan made me do it..
I was thinking more of a Jim Rome, someone not afraid to come out and just say so you cheated and lied all these years, so why should we forgive you.
I was thinking more of a Jim Rome, someone not afraid to come out and just say so you cheated and lied all these years, so why should we forgive you.
01-13-13, 03:49 AM
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Read the USADA report and make up your own mind: https://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net...edDecision.pdf
Initially the UCI was going to appeal the USADA's decision to strip LA of his seven TDF titles. This report was the "come to Jesus" moment that caused them to fold like cheap lawn furniture. Small wonder why LA chose not to take USADA to arbitration: The evidence against him is utterly overwhelming and he finally wasn't able to sleaze his way out of it.
Initially the UCI was going to appeal the USADA's decision to strip LA of his seven TDF titles. This report was the "come to Jesus" moment that caused them to fold like cheap lawn furniture. Small wonder why LA chose not to take USADA to arbitration: The evidence against him is utterly overwhelming and he finally wasn't able to sleaze his way out of it.
01-13-13, 06:40 AM
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Lance Armstrong is a Smuck. I have destroyed anything I have which compliments him as a pro cyclist. Yellow and Black have become my least favorite colors and I hope he becomes homeless living under a trussel bridge somewhere in Oregon.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
Well done.
And he lives in Texas.
01-13-13, 06:46 AM
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But the vast majority of people on this forum had never heard of the sport before Lance. Years ago we referred to them as "99ers" out here.
01-13-13, 06:54 AM
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Glad to see we have another brand new fan to the sport.
01-13-13, 06:57 AM
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Why the facepalm?
I take it you don't think LA was/is a fraud. If so, to each his own. I certainly think so. And so do many reasonable people.
Also, what are people like you gonna do when he comes out and admit he doped all thru his career? I bet you'll say you don't believe him, eh?
And, in a civilized society, stealing is stealing, be it stolen money, property or honor.
And defrauding could mean "obtaining by deception or artifice", and LA did achieve his fame and the resultant wealth by deception. Won't you say?
I take it you don't think LA was/is a fraud. If so, to each his own. I certainly think so. And so do many reasonable people.
Also, what are people like you gonna do when he comes out and admit he doped all thru his career? I bet you'll say you don't believe him, eh?
And, in a civilized society, stealing is stealing, be it stolen money, property or honor.
And defrauding could mean "obtaining by deception or artifice", and LA did achieve his fame and the resultant wealth by deception. Won't you say?
You really and truly have no idea what goes on out there.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 01-13-13 at 07:04 AM.
01-13-13, 06:58 AM
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Read the USADA report and make up your own mind: https://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net...edDecision.pdf
Initially the UCI was going to appeal the USADA's decision to strip LA of his seven TDF titles. This report was the "come to Jesus" moment that caused them to fold like cheap lawn furniture. Small wonder why LA chose not to take USADA to arbitration: The evidence against him is utterly overwhelming and he finally wasn't able to sleaze his way out of it.
Initially the UCI was going to appeal the USADA's decision to strip LA of his seven TDF titles. This report was the "come to Jesus" moment that caused them to fold like cheap lawn furniture. Small wonder why LA chose not to take USADA to arbitration: The evidence against him is utterly overwhelming and he finally wasn't able to sleaze his way out of it.
01-13-13, 07:03 AM
#1049
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Yeah, pretty much.
Breaking Away after the CinZano race...
Dave: "Everybody cheats, I just didn't know."
Dad: "Well now you know."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJETB-MfpnQ
Breaking Away after the CinZano race...
Dave: "Everybody cheats, I just didn't know."
Dad: "Well now you know."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJETB-MfpnQ
Last edited by roadwarrior; 01-13-13 at 07:15 AM.
01-13-13, 07:11 AM
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Thanks for fixing it lol
But yes, those who know a lil more about pro cycling than than avg joe...
But to those who casually follow cycling (just read about lance winning the TDF), they
probably think that he won solely because of doping and that all he screwed all those
poor, poor fellas that finished just behind him.
But yes, those who know a lil more about pro cycling than than avg joe...
But to those who casually follow cycling (just read about lance winning the TDF), they
probably think that he won solely because of doping and that all he screwed all those
poor, poor fellas that finished just behind him.
The "99ers" will never get it.
If you want to be successful and comfortable you can sort of do it without resorting to tactics.
If you want to be one of the very best, you have to be ruthless.
Thems what separates the haves from the wannabees...sorry to break it to the naive, but that's the way it works.
If you don't agree...I point you to the last presidential election. Sleaze city.
That's the way the world works folks.
I've seen people do s h ! + on a bike that would make your head spin.