Dubbayoo

How do you disprove something that didn't happen? If you say something happened and I say it didn't, the onus is on YOU to prove it did. Until you do I see nothing to respond to.

900aero

Attacking Landis is to miss the point. Its not about Landis anymore. Going after Landis is a tactic to avoid discussing the elephant that has been sitting in the corner of the room for some time. From the mainstream POV ( and probably the sponsors too) the level of detail and breadth of the allegations mean that its not about one guys character, its a question mark over cycling. Not to say that any other elite sport is any different.

coldfeet

I gave up reading the whole thing at page 5, sorry, but the number of pages were growing faster than i was reading.

I don't know if Lance doped.

I believe I remember reading that he did take EPO. When he was undergoing treatment for cancer, it is a treatment for cancer induced anemia. Someone who has had to take something for survival, would, I think, have a different attitude to using the same stuff for mere financial advantage. Maybe I'm too gullible.

Having been in a sport that did have cases of doping, but not illegally, because there were no rules against it. I didn't do it myself, but still was part of a national level team win. You don't always have to dope to win.

ElJamoquio

Yup.


Oh wait.


Armstrong's word...




Andreau/Andreau/(vaughters)/Emma soigneur whatever her name was/landis/a failed corticosteroid test/never failing for HCG when he had cancer/failed retrospective EPO test...


Well, be that as it may, who had more to gain by lying? Armstrong or Landis? ...maybe you call that a wash. Armstong or Betsy Andreau? Yeah, she's swimming in money now.

daxr

whatever the case may be, Landis is an ass for getting caught and booted off the podium at the TdF, and he was an ass for denying everything and dragging everything through the courts for years, he's an ass for having written "Positively False" and gotten plenty of people to believe in his innocence, and he's an ass now for finally admitting that he was guilty in a way that maximizes the damage to others. The French said years ago he had no class and didn't deserve his place in the sport...hard not to agree.

$ick3nin.vend3t

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" -Floyd Landis-

Most are certainly trying.

Randy5040

How were are these other people doing the exact same things as landis however landis was the only one to get caught? seems odd to me...

ElJamoquio

But they have been caught.

USAZorro

It's splitting hairs, but Floyd still maintains he wasn't guilty of taking synthetic steroids. Granted, it takes some brass to say "I'm not guilty of what you're charging me with", when you're guilty of three or four other things, but if that were the case, he wouldn't have been lying.

fwiw - I still have serious problems with WADA's rules of evidence and their policy of forbidding people within the organization from presenting testimony that contradicts the case they are attempting to make. An organization that's more focused on winning than determining the truth has no business making decisions that can end peoples' careers. Hopefully they will reform their unjust policies.

JacoKierkegaard

I am shocked, shocked, to find that doping is going on here!

daxr

Attacking Landis is missing the point Landis is trying to make - that while he's finally admitting (after years of massive denial) he was a big fat cheater all along, he'd much rather everyone focus on the real cheaters he's going to tell us all about, the ones that people still admire and like and who never got caught doing anything wrong, especially Lance. Anyone with small kids would recognize the tactic. Sorry, but that just seals the case for me, and Landis is an ass with no class and no credibility.

seanthebear

i finally caUGHT up to the thread....man it moved fast.

anyway....methinks this ain't gonna be a great year for LA. It sees unlikely he'll be challenging for any sort of podium place at ToF. If he can then my hats off to him dope or no dope.

I'm going to have to go ahead and keep believing Wiggo's clean...

bellweatherman

Actually, Armstrong did test positive for performance-enhancing drugs, and more than once. He's just got off on technicalities. The last being the retroactive positive tests for EPO. The UCI won't do anything because he's already paid them off. It's true. And documented.

$ick3nin.vend3t

Doping at the Tour de France in 2008 ****

Manuel Beltran (Liquigas)
It was after the first Stage at 5.7. positive for EPO (Mircera?) tested
Moises DUENAS NEVADO (Barloworld)
It was after the fourth Stage on EPO tested positive.
Riccardo RICCO (Saunier Duval)
He is after the fourth Step on the new EPO Mircera tested positive. Later he confesses.
Leonardo Piepoli (Saunier Duval)
Piepoli did not test positive. It was said but that he had confessed to have made the same as Ricco. Ricco and Piepoli were fired by the team.
The team leaves the Tour.
Nachtouranalysen with two new blood tests revealed the presence of CERA in 2 days.
Dmitri Fofonov (Credit Agricole)
It was after the 18th Stage on the Stumulanz Heptaminol tested positive.
Jimmy Casper (Agritubel)
He was tested positive for a glucocorticoid to. A TUE lacking for this drug. Previously, he had a different approved. It was found a prescription error - Casper was acquitted.
Stefan Schumacher (Gerolsteiner)
Conspicuous in the blood test the day before the start of the Tour prompt the AFLD to Nachtouranalysen with two new blood tests, they result in the detection of CERA in 2 days.
Bernhard Kohl (Gerolsteiner)
Retests for CERA provided a positive result.

$ick3nin.vend3t

https://translate.googleusercontent.c...wdslOECddJ6n_g

Maybe?. If Kohl.

Tom Pedale

Great post..mucho points for creativity!

800over

So right now we'll tell him to shut up but in 3-4 years we'll realise he was right?

900aero

As an ironic aside: Amgen is one of the manufacturers of EPO. As noted above, its a legitimate medicine used routinely in oncology & haematology.

Tom Pedale

Landis may be the example of a sociopathic liar who has no morals re: what comes out of his mouth. He may have no feelings whatsoever about what he says and how it affects those who are included in his version of the truth. He may in fact not understand that others will question the great inconsistencies between what he said earlier (I did not dope) and his latest pronouncement ( I doped and so did others).
As long as the socialpathic liar continues to feel that a strategy is working for him, he will continue along that path. If enough roadblocks and dissonance emerge, a socialpathic liar will change course in mid-steam with no conscious reflection of how others will perceive him. What matters to this type of person is that in the end his version of the truth prevails, even if it is largely a fantasy of his own making..

Tom Pedale

I am older, wealthier and more than slightly over the hill (more like over Alpe d'huez)..
where can I get some of this stuff..I hate needles..will it fit in my water bottle?

Tom Pedale

Really..please supply documentation and copies of receipts for UCI bribes..

zonatandem

There's dopers and there's dopes . . .
Who cares?!

agoodale

I could have sworn that was Ricco but I can't find the quote either. The quote was from last year but maybe not from someone busted last year.

Tom Pedale

Armstrong is not too big to fail..he's just never tested positive. He won 7 tours on French soil. Tested clean in all those races. With that background, how can I believe statements accusing him of using drugs when the tests say otherwise?

umd

Yeah, probably Ricco or Kohl