roadwarrior

I was trying to find out where the name "Leopard" came from and got a hit that Nygaard has a consulting business or some such and it's got the same name. Is that correct? Not that it really matters, but I was curious. That's the same business and that's all it does? But it's not his company?

luxroadie

Took me a while but finally found it in velonews ...

... Team general manager Brian Nygaard said Leopard is the name of the Luxembourg holding company created by businessman and real estate investor, Flavio Becca, that will own and operate the new team and will remain the team’s brand name for the foreseeable future.

“We had a meeting with a notary and when we signed the papers, he asked us what we wanted to call the company. I looked at Becca and we said ‘we don’t care, can you pick a name? ‘” Nygaard explained. “He came back two weeks later with Leopard, and the more I looked at it, the more I liked it. The leopard is a slick, strong, elegant animal, and if we can be something like that with this team, I’d be very happy.”

There had been rumor it was picked because it was the name of German tank but there was a fairly concerted effort here to disabuse that notion. Apparently they genuinely thought it was the animal, but that is odd because of the screwed up pronounciation they forced on the media (Lay OH pard not LeP erd).

Becca is a strange guy - I'm sure some of it is the language (gotta give the guy a break as he speaks at least 5 languages and English isn't the language he "thinks in").

But when he publically states "there will be nothing American about this team" I have to LAUGH. NO Flavio ... nothing American ... just ... some riders, the TWO MAIN SPONSORS, and the damn bikes you'll be riding on (for free).

Gotta wonder what he was trying to convey when stating "nothing American".

Namenda

Yeah, I saw that, and was a bit perplexed, too. I'm trying to figure out if its a bit of an "anti-American" sentiment coming through. If so, it doesn't seem like a great idea, considering that his new main sponsor is thoroughly American. I don't pretend to know how his mind works, though.

Namenda

Me, too. They're dumping money into the sport, while other potential sponsors are staying away in droves. Cycling fans should applaud them for that, not criticize. Never shopped at Radio Shack? Fine. I never bought any Quick Step flooring, but I don't hate the company. I don't buy Liquigas, either. But I appreciate their efforts and financial support as a long-time sponsor.

paperbackwriter

I think Van den Broeck is "staying" with Lotto-Ridley while Levi is linked to Omega Pharma Quick Step. I suppose OPQS guys for Tour GC will be Levi and Peter Velits.

@ those who are speculating about Cobo- well, you could say exactly the same about Froome, no? Some people actually expected Cobo to do good in this race (of course, not THAT good), while Froome really appeared out of nowhere. He's also riding for the new contract which is a common reason to take certain risks. And in the past, both JJ and Chris were riding for teams that had doping issues. But after all the guy who's just behind them on GC is someone who one year gave a furious interview, whining about how impossible it is to ride clean to a good GC result and two years later (being 29) was 4th in the Tour, going from a track rider to GC contender.
Cobo was one of Contador's biggest rivals in U23 ranks (admittedly he's older but still it counts for something) and though he's extremely inconsistent, it's never been in doubt that at his best, he's a great climber. And he finished 2009 Vuelta in top 10, with a stage win. He's also known for cracking mentally so it's hard to tell, maybe this is why one season he's very successful and then he has a quiet year. Also he is hardly the first guy to reach his GT potential in his 30s, isn't he? It's too easy to blame everything on doping.
Look at Kolobnev, he tested positive and he hasn't won anything except Nationals since 2007. Contador tested + during the Tour in which he didn't even look to be in his top shape. Such things are misleading.
And if you want to be cynic, if Cobo wasn't busted together with Ricco and Piepoli, he may well avoid it again.
(And by all of this I'm not accusing Froome, Cobo or Wiggins of anything, just saying everyone has their story and it's silly to jump to conclusions about Cobo and let this ruin the spectacle while you could say similar things about pretty much all of his rivals.)

As for the merger. Kim Andersen said it will be like a "divorced family" and indeed, I think the atmosphere in the team won't be very good. The whole Leopard thing was a bit silly, for example Cance buying himself out of contract to go after his friends, then the pretentious presentation, McQuaid's blatant blessings and so on. But while many of the Leopard guys showed immaturity in the proccess of leaving Saxo and while Leopard's results this season were (in a way) disappointing, at least they all seemed like good friends and probably had fun together. Now they're forced into Bruyneel's team and Johan is not as warm and friendly. Cancellara will barely have any help in the classics. Monfort and Fuglsang will have less opportunities to ride for themselves as some of old RS leaders are staying. All the others who left Riis last year will have to adapt to the new team and new DS AGAIN. They may soon find themselves cursing the day they left Saxo. They trusted Schlecks and in a way, they were done by (don't know Schlecks role in this but at best, they weren't charismatic enough to have a say in it, at worst they simply didn't care about those who followed them).
And I can't imagine Radioshack riders being satisfied. Leaders weren't doing very good but they do have their own ambitions (take Horner, last year he said he can outclimb everyone bar Contador... sure he's old but that doesn't stop him from dreaming). Portugese may not be happy because some of them will have to leave (Paulinho probably back to Contador). Zubeldia and Irizar seem generally angry that while they can stay, some of their teammates are kicked out. The atmosphere in this team never seemed to be particularly good but now I'd think it can only get worse.
Add to that the whole legal mess- Mercedes being angry about not being informed, Bruyneel seemingly being in a bit of trouble (albeit he's good in avoiding such things for years), UCI claiming they were informed via media, all the staff and riders being kept in the dark. Not the best foundations for the successful cycling team.

Another thing is, will Andy and Bruyneel even fit together? Bruyneel is without doubt a good DS but it's hard to sort out someone like Andy and he's never done something like this before. He won Tours with Armstrong and Contador but they both have strong champion's mentality and they didn't need encouragement to train hard (not to even mention that I'm not sure if Contador even owes that much to Johan). Andy's a very different person. He may either improve or end up standing up against Bruyneel and ruining his chances.

Meanwhile, Contador and Riis are getting to fully understand each other and trying to get together a better team in more sensible way. Both seem more than satisfied with each other. Contador already said he'd like to extend with Saxo if Riis wants him. Riis commented on the merger that he doesn't care because he still has the best rider. Both during the Giro and Tour Riis was praising Contador for his efforts and seemed more happy than he ever was with Schlecks. Guys who stayed in Saxo seem to work just fine with AC, they appreciate how hard he works and how humble he's and are always ready to work their a$$es off for him (I remember Chris Anker Sorensen "being excited to ride for AC" and "wanting revenge for his leader after Pyrenees"). Spaniards who he brought with him from Astana say there's no better motivation for them than to work for his leader. Other staff members like Brad McGee also seem pretty excited by where Saxo is going. They only need few strong signings- and even those aren't that neccessary for the Tour for which a decent team can be put up together but rather with Tour-Vuelta double in mind.
So, I can't really see Contador being at disadvantage next July, if only he's allowed to ride (I know he said RS-Leopard merger isn't good for him but he always says things like that). He'll have the team 100% dedicated to help him win, his DS is in no way worse than Bruyneel and Saxo should still be better organised and in better spirits.

luxroadie

Paperback - you have written a lot (your nom de plume is right on!) so let me take some morsels - on these Vuelta points.

I think Froome is a bit of a "revelation" but not an out of nowhere guy.

Cobo (who as you note also isn't a sudden talent) is benefiting from the right-place-right-time situation. He's a really good climber and decent all-around rider who benefits from not being marked. We saw it in the TdF and we'll see it again.

Yes it has to do with drugs ... but its because the BIG names aren't juiced that the average guys are getting a shot. Cycling - I'm pleased to introduce you to "parity".


Nygaard's legacy will be he tried to sell glitz as panache - check box ... that didn't work ... Johan will move them along.

Mercedes isn't "THE" Mercedes ... it's Mercedes Luxembourg. Flavo's buddy. They'll live. The rest is dead on - they took an oversold media company that also rode bikes and messed it up a tad bit more.

Flavio's 'ich bin keine American' comments aren't helping the case either I'm sure.

Your last point about Johan and Andy - this is the big one. If they work this out Andy can become a strong and successful TdF winner (and probably move into other tours and classics).

But focus and mentality isn't something a DS can dictate. SO ... if it is inside Andy and Johan can get it to come out - BINGO Luxembourg has a TdF champ. I do think if anyone is going to get him to realize whatever potential lies within it would be Johan.

Riis was never going to get it. I still harbor this inclination that the Schlecks weren't happy to have the strategy on Alpe d'Huez play out as it did the year Sastre won. It was the right strategy for Riis, the team, the sponsor and Sastre. But after that point it always seemed like the Schlecks turned into rebellious teenagers. Just my sense.

paperbackwriter

Well, the thing is, guys who "have it" don't act like Andy in similar situations and it certainly doesn't take them more than 3 years to get over the fact that they had to play a domestique (he even mentioned it this year!). Andy was incredibly lucky in his career. Partially thanks to Frank he quickly got into the best team in the world, as soon as in 2007 he got to ride the Giro for himself without producing results before. After that, with this little exception, he was basically either riding for himself or Frank and when he got bored with big bad Bjarne, he took his toys straight into the new super team were there was no one to kick him out for partying. Frank was also VERY lucky avoiding suspension back when Puerto broke- if he was Italian or Spanish I doubt he'd get away with paying Fuentes. UCI loves them, McQuaid goes to their training camps, anglophone commentators call them "people's champions", Merckx shouts to their ears during their "once in a year" attacks and yes I do believe this Tour route was designed with them in mind. They have NOTHING to whine about because so far they have it way easier than Contador, Sastre, Basso, Nibali, Valverde, Samuel Sanchez, Menchov. And yet they are the ones who whine more than all of those together. You can't turn into someone as arrogant and self-obsessed as Andy overnight, the fact that he reacted like this just showed there's something not quite right there and that his character was always to cause trouble.
(Of course Sastre deserved leadership more than any of the Schlecks- 10 top ten finishes in GTs before that Tour, including 2 podiums and over the years he had left his heart on the roads for the team. Also sacrificing himself for Basso when it was needed and seemingly being sincerely thrilled for Ivan when it worked out. I honestly can't believe that even now Schlecks call his win "a fluke" when they can still only aspire to his achievements over the years, tells a lot about them.)
So, if they got angry at Riis, they can easily get angry at Bruyneel. Imagine Johan telling Andy to actually race- not train in races- before the Tour. Or what if JB tells Schlecks they can't do the same GTs? He probably won't (even though it might benefit everyone) but that would be priceless. Anyway, I'm far from certain Bruyneel is the best person (or DS) to help Andy realize his potential. He may help or not- but he has yet to prove he's any good at it. His previous stars already had it developed.
Also, even if Andy mans up, that doesn't yet mean he'll win the Tour, at least as long as Contador is there. Just that it will be a closer battle.

About Mercedes- well no doubt it won't affect them much, you're right. But still they said they aren't happy with how they were treated. And Becca commented on that "we have the deal that allows us to pull out at any time, we thank Mercedes and we think we gave them good exposure". IMO it's bad for cycling, the sponsor clearly feels disrespected (perhaps rightly, at least they could've informed them before), if other potential sponsors hear stories like that and see it in the same way, that can't be good.

luxroadie

I haven't myself seen the Schlecks refer to Sastre as a fluke - and remember, my comments about them and their feelings are just that ... my comments. I can see inside their minds.

Also - not sure that what Andy did is as grave as arrogant and self-obsessed. Immature - yep. But that is what Johan can help with.

Aside - Luxembourgers are very proud, but very humble people. Very few native Luxembourgers could ever be thought of as arrogant. They are sometimes thought of as self-obsessed, but that would be an incorrect interpretation of their self-protection. Luxembourg became a country in the 800s and pretty much has been occupied, fought over, or ignored for quite most of the time since then.

Lux has, quietly, begun to assert itself starting with the formation of the EU (Robert Schuman was born here), and they've since "punched well above their weight" for a very small country.

You can't do that if folks find you arrogant or self-absorbed. I truly believe the smartest politicians in the world are Luxembourgers and that is because they deal with politics by that old school standard - the Golden Rule - and treat others as they themselves want to be treated.

Andy, and Franck, are both young so they'll make some mistakes. But they are both very passionate about their jobs, the cycling world and the people they get to interact with -- that is where you get the people's champion stuff from (though few people actually think of them as champions per se - Europeans are very much about results).

But your points on sponsors, and on the riders are all spot on. Nice to have your opinions!

ultraman6970

+1 with paperback. No idea what could be happening in the schrecks mind right now but maybe only pain for a wisdom tooth maybe? Either way would be nice for them just stop blaming somebody else for their mistakes and stop crying about it. Somehow public in general saw that face from them and it is really really really annoying. I dont even how EM can't see that, sure he does tho. Eddy was a super tough man, maybe he is getting old? Even Armstrong that I dont like too much took stuff like a man and no complains, shreks complains about the wind, the bike, the other contenders, that he eat oat meal at breakfast and now has the diarrhea... anything, it is just ridiculous... is that the mentality of Luxembourger s ??? doutb it.

Well if AC is not there next year, just wonder if cobo will and dont forget froom too. Cobo got his confidence back so pretty much he can do anything and from how he is riding he could crack any of the schreks easily, anybody saw froom today accelerating ala contador?? Wish I could do that going downhill. New people is coming to the TdF path next year, and doubt the new team will be a super happy team, "Troubled waters, fisherman's gain", right? The only card that is sure for next year's tdf is evans, he is consistent, all of the other ones are not. Don't see the luxy kid to win next year, big chance he just get mad at JB for being tough with him and grab the bike, his brothers and go home just because he is pissed. Anybody said horner???

Namenda

Well, here's some good news...

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voig...ck-nissan-trek

Glad to see he's coming back. Fun to watch, no doubt.

Right Said Fred

So all I want to know is why, since the team is named after an African big cat, does the media use the pretentious pronunciation of "LAY-o-pard?

ultraman6970

Could be worse like Leotard... any more to the list?

FlashBazbo

Clearly, no major sponsor has been lost in THIS merger. You've got to wonder how much sponsor loyalty they expect to gain from American sponsors with their "nothing American" theme. They're talking two-year commitment, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it end early. This is no way to start a relationship.

Questions in my mind: (1) Who will Nissan serve up for the Harpeth River Ride from their NA headquarters this year? and (2) How quickly will all the consolidation result in a reduction in the minimum pro rider salary requirement? Over 80% of the peloton makes the $40K minimum now. To fill up the peloton, they may have to drop the price in order to get viable full-season teams.

Skewer

Yeah, about 75 miles in to a race the Leafs would die and have to throw lines to the cyclists so the cyclists could tow them to the finish.

paperbackwriter

The opinion about Sastre is here: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schleck-brothers-rate-likely-tour-de-france-rivals
It's particularly funny that he says that years before and after Carlos was far from the podium- in 2007 he was 4th, you can't get much closer. And the year before he actually made the podium. As for what happened after his Tour win, he went to the Vuelta, was Contador's main opponent and podiumed, and in 2009 he was great in the Giro, few have anything left for the Tour after that. Also it is arrogant to take all the credit for Sastre's win.

And while of course there may be deeper reasons for that, he certainly did came across as arrogant in other situations too. How many times he made it sound like he's better than Contador, said that it's AC who should be afraid and that he's the one improving? And after this year's Tour he said he doesn't mind coming 2nd this time because Cadel was better than him but he didn't like the way he lost in 2010. Seriously, so Contador wasn't better then? In 2010, during the Tour, he also disrespected Menchov and Sanchez, saying they aren't worthy rivals for him. I remember watching him attack on stage 18 of the Tour this year and thinking "well, that's probably the coolest thing he's done so far but boy it will hurt hearing the interview". And like I expected, he was so full of himself I almost threw up, he said "until this stage no one really attacked"- which was totally unfair to Samuel Sanchez who actually attacked on every mountain stage (apart from Galibier, of course) and to Contador, who made two seemingly meaningless stages super exciting. Also for all the talk about chain incident (he kept coming back to it all season long), how lame it is to comment after stage 1- "Yeah, the difference wasn't made with pedals but Contador should learn to stay at the front". Next time he loses his chain Contador should tell him to learn how to shift then. (Not to even mention Leopard seemed to be working at the front every time one of favourites crashed.)
It also wasn't very nice to slap the organizers for those two stages finishing after the descents. The route was perfect for Schlecks, what if they had to compete on more traditional parcours with ~100 kms of ITT? And descending is part of the sport, to ask (like Andy did) "if people want races to be won like that" is quite ignorant to cycling's history, what, now only the skills he has count? Of course people want Savoldellis and Nibalis, and unconventional moves to win races.
Now, whining and arrogance probably wouldn't draw so much attention (though Andy really does it too often) but it's not only this but also how he races- seemingly with less heart than most of his rivals- that makes it so weird someone would think about calling him "people's champion". When Pantani was starting to complain during a race- for example about too much TT kms- the response was usually "thank God he's coming into form", you just knew that as soon as it goes uphill he'll truly make those who TT better than him sorry they even decided to take part.
Andy on the other hand can't translate his cockiness and confidence he shows in the interviews into what he does on the road. His results don't match his talent and he doesn't try hard enough to justify it, he doesn't like to attack unless he has to (Frank recently told a nice story about how Andy gave him a really nasty glare when he asked him to attack to set him up in Colorado), some of those who worked with him say he also doesn't like to train and uses races for that which is disrespectful for the organizers, plus he isn't interested in anything but yellow. He did nothing to deserve "people's champion" title and it has little to do with winning. I can think of >100 riders who deserve it more.

Frank I like more, he's more humble (usually) and probably makes the most of his talent. One thing though, he isn't really young, for a cyclist. Should be at his physical peak and just mature enough to not mess it up. But while he disappointed me with his boring ride to the podium this year, he usually indeed doesn't make that many mistakes. And Andy keeps saying that he's so young but if he continues to use that as en excuse for coming 2nd, he'll finally run out of time, especially considering that between 2010 and 2011 he hasn't improved at all (if anything, the other way). Both of them showed their talent very early but before turning 27 (despite his brain problems and mess with the teams) Contador achieved a lot more. Nibali (same age) while being less talented already won a GT and major stage race, and in contrary to AS never lost the race in his head. I guess it's Bruyneel's to solve now though, maybe he'll succeed.

(Sorry for repeating myself, I might have written pretty much the same in AC vs AS thread....)

BTW, maybe I've mentioned it before but Rast and Hermans left Radioshack for Leopard, not an easy situation for them.

Good to know what someone from Luxembourg thinks though

ultraman6970

wow, this is a good one Next time he will say "i'm too old now" Wonder how much influence the schrecks have in the team. one thing is for sure tho, if big ego andy doesnt listen JB there will be problems, The kid is good but probably JB is tired of hearing all his BS too, as i'm for example , so wonder if at some point JB will get tired of him. Anybody said Texan comeback???

paperbackwriter

Funny Tony Martin's comment: "I hope they stumble over their money."

It looks pretty weird that neither Andy nor Frank gave their opinions. When they were asked about the merger in Colorado they seemed surprised- perhaps like Cancellara (not to even mention other riders), they too didn't know. Anyway, it's stupid that Becca and Bruyneel keep talking the team up, saying they will win monuments and the Tour blah blah blah- but there's no positive feedback from their leaders. They should at least bring Schlecks to their side and give it some meaning or alternatively Frandy should man up, admit it's been handled poorly, start picking who's staying themselves and start with those who trusted them last year- and save some of the team spirit. Because as for now it seems riders know stuff from the media, their future is up in air, they're being forced into working with the dodgiest DS of them all and all of it despite the fact that it's well past the date when Bruyneel was supposed to announce the full roster. They could use some explanation from both their bosses and captains. Otherwise I can see it having a negative long-term impact.

What we know so far about who's staying (apart from Schlecks) and who's leaving:
Cancellara- Was clearly unhappy with having to stay but looks like he'll honour his contract. No surprise as he'd look like an idiot buying himself out 2nd year in a row. I hope they'll give him decent support for cobbles at least and that he'll get good tactical advice (I'm afraid Johan won't help much with the classics but maybe I'm wrong).
Fuglsang- Also seemed disappointed with how things went, allegedly even met with Riis during La Vuelta. But he has a contract and they promised him Giro leadership, he's staying for 2011.
Leipheimer, Kwiatkowski- Signed with Omega Pharma Quick Step.
McEwen, O'Grady- Signed with GreenEdge.
Hunter, Rosseler- Signed with Garmin.
Muravyev- Signed with Astana.
Brajkovic- Said he's leaving, possibly to Astana.
Lund- Left out, he's looking for a contract.
Paulinho- Signed with Saxo Bank.
McCartney and Deignan- Signed with UnitedHealthcare.

If Fuglsang has the Giro and Schlecks the Tour, I wonder what Monfort, Kloeden and Horner will do.

oldbobcat

And all I want to know if the kit will retain the little "0" on the butt.

YMCA

@paperbackwriter

Are you wanting others to actually read your posts.
You seem to have plenty of insightful comments, but yikes.
Any modern publisher would have you condense your thoughts, so our 21st century minds can move on to the next post.

BTW - I did catch a quickie from one of your novels.
I do not agree that a race organizer would be upset at Andy for "training" through their race.
Nobody can show up motivated at every event to get a result.
Remember the old days when guys raced 150x a year? Many days were for the k's.

paperbackwriter

Whatever, I like Proust not "For sale: Baby shoes, never worn".

Sure in a way everyone treats certain races as preparation but most guys at the same time show them respect instead of giving an impression they're just there to stretch their legs. Contador, Evans, Rodriguez, the new version of Wiggins, Valverde, Vino always show up motivated and even if they're at their 80%, usually manage to get good results. After all most of their biggest rivals also aren't 100% for Tirreno-Adriatico or Dauphine.
Andy on the other hand was 2nd in the Tour three times in a row but has yet to win a stage race- unlike countless less talented guys. Even better, more often than not he can't even finish them in top 10. He can of course do what suits him best but it's not the attitude you'd want from someone who's "the future of cycling". Especially that he actually critisizes those who race harder in other races.

YMCA

Proust (haha), good point.

You are right in that Andy rarely seems to be up for a fight (LBL is about it), but I guess that's how "three weeks in France" ruined the sport.

For all it's glorious stories, Le Tour has gotten certain riders to forsake competition in the hope of giving one big show each year.

Andy has been taken in by this wrong approach and Bruyneel will be the first to keep him on that track.

That is too bad.

bobbycorno

Not surprising, considering Cavendish had already decided to leave, and took much of his train with him. Without that there WAS NO HTC team. And you have to admit, most big-time sponsors show pretty much zero commitment to cycling. One sign of trouble and they hightail it.

SP
Bend, OR

paperbackwriter

HTC = much more than Cav. The staff was brilliant at finding and developing talents and they had enough riders capable of getting results. IMO had they been given the chance to continue, they could be fine putting that train of theirs behind Goss and then there's Tony Martin plus few other guys who bring points and some kind of exposure (P Velits, Pinotti, Siutsou, Van Garderen, Dagenkolb). Cav is probably the most marketable cyclist so of course it would be harder without him but still many teams would love to have their roster.
Besides, didn't Cav wait long to announce he's made up his mind? The uncertainty if he'll stay might have been a problem too but it's a different thing. And who's he taking apart from Eisel?
I think it was lack of national identity that killed them. Also perhaps they could've continued if they agreed to step down a level. Even teams in deeper **** were able to find sponsors (like Movistar) if they knew where to look.

About Andy and Bruyneel, too true. But I think overally it's not that bad now, only Andy and Van den Broeck strike me as obvious July guys.

RacingFanatic

This is going to one heck of a team. There is already a fan site online: https://www.radioshacknissantrekfan.com/

I think the UCI boss Pat McQuaid said somewhere that he was not too thrilled about the merger.

ultraman6970

Dunno why I think this team will suck big time. I see AS racing PISSED OFF and leaving the team maybe before the end of the season, doubt he will stand the pressure. When paper was talking about results or at least show some respect and show something the name tommy voeckler comes in my mind right away. Even in the world cup he showed up something.

I believe the "toast" will flip at some point and probably the GC for the tour will be a super nice american old timer guy or even a german if he can come back to form as years before. And little schreck will be just another guy in the team how it should have been. Personally i was a team manager a racer that goes to "roll and have fun" in the races doesnt even deserve to be in a team at all.