License2Ill

Just the fact that these guys can come back from a single stage of a lifetime epic ride and do it over again the next day or two days later, for at least 2 weeks worth of those stages is suspicious enough at this point. We act like it's the matter of leading, but the whole event of a cycle tour is grueling enough to question drug use. The suffering alone looks like an addiction.

RJM

Apologies? Give it a rest. Liggett was going on and on about how that was cheating, saying it was against the rules. If it is legal, it's legal, but there was absolutely no harm in other posters talking negatively about the feed bag thing early on (like during and right after the race) since they were being told it was illegal by the commentator of the TdF no less. Take it up with Liggett and NBCsports if you got that huge of a problem with it.

merlinextraligh

Froome's been doing that to Contador all year. Based on their 2013 results, you'd have to conclude that Froome has been doping for quite sometime, including for all of this year's results, and last year's TDF.

There is certainly the possibility that a post doping suspension Contador is just not as good as the pre suspension Contador.

Doesn't mean that Froome isn't doping, or that they all are doping.

However, your test is the same as burning witches who float. No one can ever win. The witch is dead either way. Any rider, either loses the Tour, or he's a doper.

Grumpy McTrumpy

Objection. Counsel is invoking Monty Python as legal precedent.

jayp410

It's not the winning that is the problem... it's the unreal way in which one guy is so much faster than EVERYONE else...all world class climbers. It doesn't pass the sniff test. We don't have evidence - I don't, you don't... This is not a court of law. It's not innocent until proven guilty. All we have is our gut instincts, and mine are telling me that this guy is on something. For the record, I think Evans may have been legit. But after getting burned by Armstrong, Rasmussen, Contador, Vino, etc... it would be naive to think that one guy is so much better than EVERYONE else without doping - not just climbing, but time trialing also... Not just one guy, but TWO guys on the same team BOTH better than everyone else at both climbing AND time trialing.

colombo357

No, he isn't. His clenbeuterol positive suggested homologous blood doping... very effective in aiding climbing ability.

With this year's tour, there are no "decent measuring sticks". The past four tour winners are all having problems this year.

merlinextraligh

^^I get the point. In someways it makes me think of when Riccardo Ricco was suddenly flying by people.

However, I think there are several reasons to believe Froome's performance could be real ( or as real as any professional cyclists)

1) Froome is not a flash in the pan. He's shown the ability to be a great climber and time trialist, over the last several years, with progressively better results. And now he's free to fly without domestique duties.

2) His physique. He's 6'1" 152lbs, which makes him both taller and lighter than Armstrong, and gives him the potential to have an exceptional power to weight ratio.

3) He's not exactly flying away from Quitana. Quintana took off way early on Ventoux in a gambit to try to gain major time that failed. Had Quintana set in and attacked later he might have been able to take the stage win from Froome. So is Quintana doping as well? He also blew away Contador.


As you point out, none of us know. They may all be still doped to the gills. But for me speculating about it, before there's a positive test, or a sanction based on other evidence just detracts from my enjoyment of the race. So I choose to not presume that any great performance is the result of doping, until show otherwise.

carbonframe

Has the penalty been handed down for the feebags?

merlinextraligh

^ apparently it was legal. According to various reports, race radio told the riders they could feed there.

Leinster

I don't get how that happened. Some time in the middle of the race the directors just said "hey everybody, since you've all been so good, you can take on extra grub inside the last 20km!" It's as bad as the bus finish on stage 1; you need to finish the day with the same rules as you started with, otherwise it becomes Calvinball.

Laggard

No, the bus finish on stage 1 was perfectly normal. They have always made exceptions for groups that finish over the time limit.

merlinextraligh

he's referring to the team bus stuck at the finish line, not the autobus.

I don't know if they announced the change in the feed zone rules before the Ventoux stage.

It may have been a decision to let them feed on the climb, due to the length of the stage, and the length of the climb. Even for those guys, most of them would take more than a hour up Ventoux.

Laggard

I see. If anyone is wondering what the actual rules say, section 2.3.039 says "Any rider finishing in a time exceeding that of the winner by more than 8% shall not be placed. The time limit may in exceptional circumstances be increased by the commissaires panel in consultation with the organiser."

gregf83 

+1.

If you run the numbers Quintana required a higher W/kg to finish Ventoux than Froome. Power/weight ratios are always given based on rider weight but times up a climb are based on Power divided by total weight including rider, bike, bottles etc. Because Froome is significantly heavier than Quintana he will always have an advantage over a lighter rider like Quintana if they both have the same W/kg based on rider weight.

Bottom line, if you assume Froome was doping based on his performance up Ventoux then you would need to include Quintana, and possibly others, in your accusations as well.

jambreck

Ironic that you sit so haughtily on your moral high horse yet prove yourself to be utterly devoid of any kind of human decency or integrity.

Whether you are right or wrong about Chris Froome, vile (and completely illogical) attacks on his blameless family (wishing death on his children, for crying out loud) renders anything further you have to say on the matter worthless. Not to mention your barely concealed bigotry. Why resort to cheap, tedious insults about an entire nation simply because you are suspicious about the behaviour of one of its sportsmen? Crass behaviour.

Curlin

This is a pretty good article on the matter

https://www.outsideonline.com/fitness...nce.html?page=

HardyWeinberg

It's a fair cop. But society's to blame.

HardyWeinberg

That's my conspiracy theory, Quintana is the doping bunny to give plausible deniability to his doping chasers. Also, the Sky teammates dope on climbing days and bonk on the rest. I don't know how Froome himself fits into this. If he's drafting enough dopers maybe he doesn't have to himself at all. It is definitely moving to fully scripted pro-wrestling territory at this level of conspiracy theorizing.

Which is nothing but idol 'I suppose this could be happening' speculation. The racing itself is great.

Laggard

Tommybing. You are one sad sad person. I hope you find the help you need. Now please take leave from here and this "dead" sport.

License2Ill

Next thing you know, some emails will turn up from Froome to Quintana confirming the ethics of their recent wire transfer transaction...

Jseis 

Yikes, degenerating into an A&S thread.

Steve C

Just as I expected, only mature adults admit when they are wrong, even when they were inadvertently misled.

RJM

You want an apology? Really?

License2Ill

Did you see Contador descending today? No way anybody could descend like that without being on something....and then Froome even stayed on his bike when they crashed....those cat like reflexes are surely evidence of something.

jambreck

No apology necessary.

It's quite enough to enjoy how foolish, in hindsight, all that teeth gnashing about the Sky feedbags really was.