[Stage 18] Gap / Alpe-d'Huez (172.5KM)
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I would assume that race radio are monitoring conversations, once Froome had made it clear there was a problem maybe they were listening in as i assume he was talking into his mic as well.
He then had a chat with Porte before Porte dropped back to the team car to grab gels etc, by this point i imagine the officials were fully aware of what was happening.
You couldn't see it on the TV but the commentators were saying there was a bit of a set too going on.
He then had a chat with Porte before Porte dropped back to the team car to grab gels etc, by this point i imagine the officials were fully aware of what was happening.
You couldn't see it on the TV but the commentators were saying there was a bit of a set too going on.
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,010
Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, Dahon Mu Uno, Origami Wasp
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times
in
15 Posts
I watched it live this morning and am pretty sure Phil said he heard them on race radio telling Porte not to take on food.
#78
Professional Fuss-Budget
There actually are rules about how much time you can spend behind a car. Enforcement is a bit lax. I.e. that sort of thing is not a big deal.
He was within 5k. He wasn't going to lose a lot of time without a gel.
It is a bigger deal, which is why he and Porte each got docked 20 seconds.
Froome did this because he knew he would lose it on the climb and god forbid, lose time to the field.
The feeding is a bigger deal though, because the time difference would be bigger.
#79
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I guess we can now see where people stand, its one thing to defend the doping accusations, and understandable.........but to defend openly flaunting the rules because you were running out of energy is a completely different matter, i guess from now on in we will see riders taking on food wherever they want if they bonk due to over exertion.
Here's me thinking part of the race ettiquete was giving it your all and if thats not enough, falling on your sword.......turns out you can now give it your all and if thats not enough, just break the rules and its fine.
Here's me thinking part of the race ettiquete was giving it your all and if thats not enough, falling on your sword.......turns out you can now give it your all and if thats not enough, just break the rules and its fine.
It was a minor infraction. There is no rule against eating during that period of the race. There is only a rule against taking delivery of food during that period of the race. Froome hadn't been able to take delivery of anything at the time that the other riders did because the Sky support vehicle hadn't been able to reach him (mechanical failure, I believe, coupled with the difficulties of the unusually narrow roads). That's why he (or rather Porte) took delivery at a time which they knew would incur a penalty.
I think the penalty could have been somewhat harsher. But it's not a big deal, really. It was a technical infraction. Bit of perspective required.
#80
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The comparison is between drafting behind a car and taking delivery of a gel at the wrong time.
Both are minor infractions. You might say that the latter is the more serious offence, and maybe it is. That's probably why it was punished with a 20 second penalty while drafting rarely results in any kind of censure.
Last edited by jambreck; 07-18-13 at 03:56 PM.
#81
Professional Fuss-Budget
Here's me thinking part of the race ettiquete was giving it your all and if thats not enough, falling on your sword.......turns out you can now give it your all and if thats not enough, just break the rules and its fine.
This is no different than intentional grounding in football. A QB who intentionally grounds the ball, and gets caught, gets a penalty. The QB hasn't violated the sanctity of the sport, and he isn't cheating. He's violated a rule.
from now on in we will see riders taking on food wherever they want if they bonk due to over exertion.
And I hate to break this to you, but consuming a gel is not like Popeye eating spinach. You're not going to get over a bonk in 30 seconds because you consumed a gel.
It's a minor infraction. Froome & Porte both got busted and penalized. It's not a big deal.
#82
shaken, not stirred.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Shaky Isles.
Posts: 5,253
Bikes: I've lost count.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1413 Post(s)
Liked 975 Times
in
393 Posts
Sky took the risk that their rider would be heavily penalised. If the punishment is insufficient (and it does appear to be), then the blame lies with the race officials.
Don't bleat on about ethics (especially not in the context of professional cycling, of all sports). All the teams would do whatever it takes to help their riders win the TDF. Naive to think otherwise.
Don't bleat on about ethics (especially not in the context of professional cycling, of all sports). All the teams would do whatever it takes to help their riders win the TDF. Naive to think otherwise.
__________________
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
vBulletin: snafu
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Depends how you want to look at it i guess, cracking is part and parcel of the race isn't it, due to depleted energy sources, we have seen riders virtually kill themselves on a bike and die a slow death on climbs, i have never seen anyone do what sky did today, so it is un-ethical to me.
and i don't think its a case of it being a big deal, more a case of of seeing what kind of mentality team sky have......win at all costs.
and i don't think its a case of it being a big deal, more a case of of seeing what kind of mentality team sky have......win at all costs.
#84
I'm doing it wrong.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,875
Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Frank Jones Sr., Trek Fuel EX9, Kona Jake the Snake CR, Niner Sir9
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9742 Post(s)
Liked 2,812 Times
in
1,664 Posts
To be fair, the first time was within the rules set for the day that were broadcast over race radio...aparently.
#85
Banned.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Pretty much everybody looks shattered, including Froome, Kreuziger, Contador. The only people who have been really active in the race who looked as strong as usual today were Porte, Rodriguez, Quintana. I'm liking Quintana more and more, climbs like a bird. Apparently he managed more than 6w/kg on the second climb today. No great outcry about him being a doper, though. And no, I am not accusing him, merely highlighting the contrast.
#86
cycling fanatic
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,162
Bikes: Cannondale T800
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#87
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 430
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times
in
13 Posts
Not sure if anyone replied but Nibali planned to skip the Tour this year t focus on the Giro and then the World's which are in Italy and on a hilly course that might favor him. I think he'll be the Italian team captain. He'll ride the Vuelta to prep, not sure if he'll ride for GC or even finish. Could be interesting if he does, a few Spaniards will be looking for a grand tour win this year.
#88
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Exactly. There are similar analogies in soccer.
#89
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Depends how you want to look at it i guess, cracking is part and parcel of the race isn't it, due to depleted energy sources, we have seen riders virtually kill themselves on a bike and die a slow death on climbs, i have never seen anyone do what sky did today, so it is un-ethical to me.
and i don't think its a case of it being a big deal, more a case of of seeing what kind of mentality team sky have......win at all costs.
and i don't think its a case of it being a big deal, more a case of of seeing what kind of mentality team sky have......win at all costs.
But that isn't the rule, is it? Nor is it the point of the rule.
The rule only relates to taking delivery of food during that period of the race. It is a technicality. Nothing to do with testing the physical condition of the riders.
Unethical? Give over.
#90
Resident PIA
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: City of Oaks, NC
Posts: 863
Bikes: Gunnar Roadie, Look 765 Optimum, Spesh Aethos
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 222 Post(s)
Liked 364 Times
in
193 Posts
I would be interested to know if there is a penalty for directly disregarding instructions of the Race Referee?
It's obvious Sky is from the end justifies the means school.
A complete bonk on Froome's part would have lead to at least more than a minute more time lost.
Porte should be DQ's and Froome's time penalty should have been greater.
Car's not being able to get to the riders at critical points of the race are part of cycle racing, there is no guarantee your team car is going to be right there especially on a climb that that one.
It's obvious Sky is from the end justifies the means school.
A complete bonk on Froome's part would have lead to at least more than a minute more time lost.
Porte should be DQ's and Froome's time penalty should have been greater.
Car's not being able to get to the riders at critical points of the race are part of cycle racing, there is no guarantee your team car is going to be right there especially on a climb that that one.
__________________
--
Shad
I knew where I was when I wrote this
I don't know where I am now...
05 Gunnar Roadie Chorus/Record
67'er
--
Shad
I knew where I was when I wrote this
I don't know where I am now...
05 Gunnar Roadie Chorus/Record
67'er
#91
Professional Fuss-Budget
Goodness gracious. Who do you people think are in the race? The Smurfs?
Do you really not know the kind of stuff that athletes pull during competition? Diving in soccer? Grunting in tennis? Spitballs? Hockey fights?
Or not. It's a mild infraction, and the penalty is usually a fine.
Please stop drumming up excuses to pile on the penalties.
Do you really not know the kind of stuff that athletes pull during competition? Diving in soccer? Grunting in tennis? Spitballs? Hockey fights?
Porte should be DQ's and Froome's time penalty should have been greater.
Please stop drumming up excuses to pile on the penalties.
#92
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 888
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I doubt the illegal feed helped much, but yes, he did in fact cheat and 20s is a joke.
#93
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
how on earth did TJVG not at least get most combative today? led the way up most of both assents, AND fought back to the lead after a popped chain?? I know it's basically a consolation prize, but he really deserved more than nothing for that hell of a ride...
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,035
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
Riblon crashed into a stream and came back again and again and (and this must be the tie breaker) won the stage. Oh, and he's French.
#95
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#96
Have bike, will travel
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lake Geneva, WI
Posts: 12,284
Bikes: Ridley Helium SLX, Canyon Endurance SL, De Rosa Professional, Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra, Schwinn Paramount (1 painted, 1 chrome), Peugeot PX10, Serotta Nova X, Simoncini Cyclocross Special, Raleigh Roker, Pedal Force CG2 and CX2
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 910 Post(s)
Liked 288 Times
in
158 Posts
Tejay interview: https://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15...lpe-dHuez.aspx
__________________
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
When I ride my bike I feel free and happy and strong. I'm liberated from the usual nonsense of day to day life. Solid, dependable, silent, my bike is my horse, my fighter jet, my island, my friend. Together we will conquer that hill and thereafter the world.
#97
The Flying Scot
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Queensferry Scotland and London (and France)
Posts: 1,904
Bikes: Custom (Colin Laing) 531c fast tourer/audax, 1964 Flying Scot Continental, 1995 Cinelli Supercorsa, Holdsworth Mistral single speed, Dahon Speed 6 (folder), Micmo Sirocco and a few more
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Goodness gracious. Who do you people think are in the race? The Smurfs?
Do you really not know the kind of stuff that athletes pull during competition? Diving in soccer? Grunting in tennis? Spitballs? Hockey fights?
Or not. It's a mild infraction, and the penalty is usually a fine.
Please stop drumming up excuses to pile on the penalties.
Do you really not know the kind of stuff that athletes pull during competition? Diving in soccer? Grunting in tennis? Spitballs? Hockey fights?
Or not. It's a mild infraction, and the penalty is usually a fine.
Please stop drumming up excuses to pile on the penalties.
Sky took the penalty. The penalty is imposed by the organisation. It's a rule infraction, Watch any sport and you'll see athletes manipulate the rules to try to get an advantage - Whining about getting the roof closed at Wimbledon, grunting, calling for trainers when an opponent is on a roll. Diving in the box. Holding on to the sticky bidon, drafting motorbikes.
It's sport, you take the risk and work out if it's worth the benefit.
As for suspicions that there wasn't a technical issue with the car, Sky use Jags, and if my last one was anything to go by I wouldn't be too surprised there were issues
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens
1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens
1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
#98
Banned.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
LOL. I hadn't heard that one. Let's imagine Brailsford's thought processes. "Er, what if we pretended to have car trouble so that we can't feed Froome at the appropriate time? That would give us an opportunity to break the rules later, lose a bit of time and court more unpopularity. Let's go for it!"
#99
cycling fanatic
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,162
Bikes: Cannondale T800
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Agree 100%.
#100
Senior Member
For all the complaints about 20 seconds not being enough, I wonder if any of this has to do with Froome being so far ahead in the GC. If he started the day only 8 seconds up would a 20 second penalty then seem to be enough? What would be an appropriate penalty to be given uniformly across all riders in any situation who made the same rule infraction?
Also, does anybody know the reason for this rule? Is it to create a more even competitive level? Or is it perhaps to keep team cars from rushing up to in the last 20km and getting in the way of riders trying to make moves for the finish?
Also, does anybody know the reason for this rule? Is it to create a more even competitive level? Or is it perhaps to keep team cars from rushing up to in the last 20km and getting in the way of riders trying to make moves for the finish?