Base layer during summer
05-19-15 | 01:09 PM
#51
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From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Wait, I thought bibs were supposed to be sooo comfortable.
What's the deal?
In "Bike for Life", John Sinibaldi was interviewed. He was raced in the '30s, & was riding daily at 90 when the book was published in 2004.
"I have one secret: wear a shirt under your jersey, no matter how hot it is, wool, anything. It'll get damp right away, and you will never use any sweat anymore. It'll keep you cool all summer, and you won't dehydrate. Like these runners that take everything off, the girls who have just a bra on, they dehydrate. They look dry. But they dehydrate , because the sun just dries them right up. If they were covered, they wouldn't have to drink.
Back when we rode a 100-mile race, who's going to give us water when we're riding from one city to another?
As a matter of fact, the old-timers all used a shirt under a shirt. When you see these guys today with a plastic jacket, they are dehydrating so fast. In other words, you go to Africa or Egypt, or any of these Arab countries, ask these guys to take that white shirt off-that sort of dress they wear-and they got a woolen shirt underneath it in the desert."
He did say that he didn't sweat much, but he lived in Florida.
What's the deal?
In "Bike for Life", John Sinibaldi was interviewed. He was raced in the '30s, & was riding daily at 90 when the book was published in 2004.
"I have one secret: wear a shirt under your jersey, no matter how hot it is, wool, anything. It'll get damp right away, and you will never use any sweat anymore. It'll keep you cool all summer, and you won't dehydrate. Like these runners that take everything off, the girls who have just a bra on, they dehydrate. They look dry. But they dehydrate , because the sun just dries them right up. If they were covered, they wouldn't have to drink.
Back when we rode a 100-mile race, who's going to give us water when we're riding from one city to another?
As a matter of fact, the old-timers all used a shirt under a shirt. When you see these guys today with a plastic jacket, they are dehydrating so fast. In other words, you go to Africa or Egypt, or any of these Arab countries, ask these guys to take that white shirt off-that sort of dress they wear-and they got a woolen shirt underneath it in the desert."
He did say that he didn't sweat much, but he lived in Florida.
05-19-15 | 01:14 PM
#52
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It's only because every other jersey I try on doesn't fit me, even in small they are a size too big, so I ended up buying an assos. Fyi I would rather not pay that much. I actually paid more than that, but 200 already sounds ridiculous so ill stop there.
05-19-15 | 01:42 PM
#55
Señor Blues
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From: upstate NY
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No, but you can keep fluid in the body (perspiration) by not calling for more cooling. That's the theory behind an evaporative base layer, that it keeps the body cooler with less total perspiration. Up to you whether you want to believe it or not..
05-19-15 | 02:41 PM
#56
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From: Seattle, WA
But you have to understand just being in the road forum gives everybody the inalienable right to criticize each other.
05-19-15 | 03:09 PM
#57
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Exactly so, but it did not sound to me like that is what he was talking about. He was going on about staying moist. If the surface of the body dries out, it is because all the moisture on the surface has evaporated, for cooling purposes the best possible case, i.e. most evaporation means most cooling. He suggested that staying wet on the surface helped to keep one from dehyrdrating. The actual effect would be just the opposite. I wonder if he meant that enough evaporative cooling wasn't the problem, but rather too much evaporation was the problem.
05-19-15 | 03:14 PM
#59
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From: SE MN
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I think I would need to try one before forming an opinion. My biggest gripe about the hot muggy days of summer isn't with keeping cool though. My biggest complaint is when my glasses start to fog up.
05-19-15 | 03:23 PM
#60
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From: Vancouver, BC
05-19-15 | 03:29 PM
#61
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From: Seattle, WA
Exactly so, but it did not sound to me like that is what he was talking about. He was going on about staying moist. If the surface of the body dries out, it is because all the moisture on the surface has evaporated, for cooling purposes the best possible case, i.e. most evaporation means most cooling. He suggested that staying wet on the surface helped to keep one from dehyrdrating. The actual effect would be just the opposite. I wonder if he meant that enough evaporative cooling wasn't the problem, but rather too much evaporation was the problem.
Apparently you stop perspiring when your skin is a certain amount of wet. Presumably you don't sweat in the shower. The idea is that keeping your skin wet is like turning the switch off on perspiration. There are people who sleep in waterproof jackets on multi-day hikes because (they say) the vapor barrier traps and limits their sweat, allowing the down sleeping bags to retain their loft for several days. Personally, I think I'd rather sleep on a bed of nails and then swim in rubbing alcohol.
05-19-15 | 03:32 PM
#62
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[QUOTE=Seattle Forrest;17820019]I've heard people make similar claims, I've always been skeptical. Even if they're right, the way I've heard it sounds like the cure is worse than the ailment.
Apparently you stop perspiring when your skin is a certain amount of wet. Presumably you don't sweat in the shower. QUOTE]
That is bizarre. The last few days when on the bike, I don't see how my skin could have been any wetter, but the sweat just kept coming. Oh well...
Apparently you stop perspiring when your skin is a certain amount of wet. Presumably you don't sweat in the shower. QUOTE]
That is bizarre. The last few days when on the bike, I don't see how my skin could have been any wetter, but the sweat just kept coming. Oh well...
05-19-15 | 04:12 PM
#64
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OK, I'll try it. Ordered a white LS UA HeatGear shirt. I already wear sun sleeves anyway.
The discussion about perspiring with an underlayer is slightly interesting. The thing that's true is that if you're bare-armed, at least at normal summer humidity in the PNW, and you stop seeing perspiration on your forearms, you have a problem. Time to finish your bottles and find more water and shade. But with arm coverings, you can't see the lack of sweat. Just something to be careful of. I understand that at very low humidity one never sees it anyway.
The discussion about perspiring with an underlayer is slightly interesting. The thing that's true is that if you're bare-armed, at least at normal summer humidity in the PNW, and you stop seeing perspiration on your forearms, you have a problem. Time to finish your bottles and find more water and shade. But with arm coverings, you can't see the lack of sweat. Just something to be careful of. I understand that at very low humidity one never sees it anyway.
05-19-15 | 09:09 PM
#65
Señor Blues
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From: upstate NY
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Or, think of it this way. Ever sweat so much that it was just dripping off of you? Yup, me too. All that sweat that drips off of you does nothing to cool you. The base layer, if properly designed and functioning, keeps the perspiration on the skin, rather than it dripping off and being wasted, for lack of a better term. Or, you could try it for yourself. A decent base layer can be had for $10 - $15. Let us know how you make out.
05-19-15 | 09:40 PM
#66
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Or, think of it this way. Ever sweat so much that it was just dripping off of you? Yup, me too. All that sweat that drips off of you does nothing to cool you. The base layer, if properly designed and functioning, keeps the perspiration on the skin, rather than it dripping off and being wasted, for lack of a better term. Or, you could try it for yourself. A decent base layer can be had for $10 - $15. Let us know how you make out.
05-19-15 | 09:47 PM
#67
Señor Blues
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From: upstate NY
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Sort of, and your point is valid. I'd say a "race-fit" jersey would be fairly good at this. A "club fit" jersey, not so much. I have a couple of race fit jerseys that do a very good job at wicking perspiration, but not as good as the base layers I use.
05-19-15 | 11:33 PM
#68
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From: Nor Cal
Think of it this way:
If you mist yourself with a spray bottle, it will have X cooling effect.
If you pour a full bottle of water over your head, it will have similar cooling effect, but use 30x more water.
Similarly, (as I understand the argument) a base layer evaporates the sweat in a more measured way, so less sweat is needed, which reduces dehydration/ need to drink more.
If you mist yourself with a spray bottle, it will have X cooling effect.
If you pour a full bottle of water over your head, it will have similar cooling effect, but use 30x more water.
Similarly, (as I understand the argument) a base layer evaporates the sweat in a more measured way, so less sweat is needed, which reduces dehydration/ need to drink more.
05-19-15 | 11:42 PM
#69
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From: Vancouver, BC
But the base layer only gets the moisture halfway. It still has to get through the jersey and it's not clear to me how the extra layer helps that process.
05-20-15 | 12:03 AM
#70
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From: Nor Cal
Sweating doesn't cause cooling, it's the evaporation- turning from liquid to gas- that does it.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
05-20-15 | 05:58 AM
#71
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From: Houston, TX
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Sweating doesn't cause cooling, it's the evaporation- turning from liquid to gas- that does it.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
Or a very tight over-jersey with no base layer.
One thing is for sure, despite the mechanism of cooling of a base layer, adding it as a second shirt for evaporative cooling is also insulating.
05-20-15 | 07:01 AM
#72
Señor Blues
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From: upstate NY
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Sweating doesn't cause cooling, it's the evaporation- turning from liquid to gas- that does it.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
Maybe it's a personal thing. Try it. If it works for you, great. If it doesn't, move on. It would be a very reasonably priced experiment. I spend 10-15 hrs. per week, or more, on the bike. Being as comfortable as possible while riding is not a small thing.
05-20-15 | 07:14 AM
#73
well hello there
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05-20-15 | 07:49 AM
#74
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From: Vancouver, BC
Sweating doesn't cause cooling, it's the evaporation- turning from liquid to gas- that does it.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
If the sweat runs onto a loose-fitting jersey, & evaporates there, it cools the jersey, but not as much the skin.
By keeping the evaporation right at the skin, the base layer produces more cooling with less sweat.
The one potential benefit I see is that the base layer might capture sweat that might otherwise drip away rather than evaporating. Still think one tight jersey would be cooler.
05-20-15 | 07:54 AM
#75
Señor Blues
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From: upstate NY
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD 10, Breezer Venturi Custom Build, IRO Singlespeed
C9 Champion® Men's Advanced Power Core Comp... : Target
This is precisely what I have, available at your local Target. Good quality and great fit. Seems they were cheaper when I bought mine, but still within the stated price range. See amazon for lower priced items.
This is precisely what I have, available at your local Target. Good quality and great fit. Seems they were cheaper when I bought mine, but still within the stated price range. See amazon for lower priced items.