Wingsprint

I am confused...

Is the Gunnar build going to cost more than the Lynskey R240 you purchased and returned last month? Its your money and none of my business- I have followed this thread from the beginning and I just don't understand.

mawashi

I guess he's a worry wart. He must have started over a hundred threads and just about asked every question under the sun. Simply put the op should just find a manufacturer who will warranty their frames n wheels for 130kg.

exime

No he already said he didn't like the ride of the Lynskey. His steel rides better than titanium. I'm not surprised.

Jarrett2

It's a thread discussing titanium and steel bikes in 2015. What are you confused about?

Jarrett2

Wow, you joined the forum just last month and have already read all of my threads? I'm flattered. A little creeped out, but flattered nonetheless

rpenmanparker 

Yes. BITD that was called "fastback" seat stays.

Jarrett2

Interesting, thanks.

exime

Can you guys help me decide between the 2016 Jamis Quest Elite $1750 (630 steel, carbon fork, 105 groupo, rim brks) and the 2016 Kona Roadhouse $2400 (853 steel, carbon fork, mutt groupo, disc brks)

The Kona is about $650 more for the better steel and addition of discs etc.. but the new 2016 Jamis Quest Elite is cool too (all silver) and has the simple caliper brakes.

This will be my only road bike, so the Kona is interesting as an all-arounder. But the Jamis offers so much for the price.

winston63 

That Kona really looks interesting to me - I'm not even in the market, but I think I'll give one a test ride. Road discs don't really excite me, but I wouldn't let that prevent me from buying a bike I really liked.

Wingsprint

Now I'm really confused.

My question was based on your posts in this thread. You stated the Gunnar build would be too much money at this time so I asked you if the Gunnar build was going to cost more than the Lynskey R240 you purchased and returned last month.

No need to respond.

Jarrett2

That's a tough call. Jamis gives you a lot of bike for the money, but it seems to be more of a dated design. Where the Roadhouse is pretty much cutting edge in modern steel bikes, but considerably more expensive. As much as I like my Jamis Eclipse, if I had to pick between those two bikes today, I'd get the Roadhouse. If there was a 2016 Eclipse, the choice would be tougher for me.

Another less expensive option, find a 2015 Kona Kapu. Same steel, same groupset, caliper brakes, steel fork:


Damn, that's sexy.

JohnJ80

I'd go for Jamis. That looks like a lot of bike for the money. The only real difference in components is that the Kona has a Ultegra RD vs a 105 and you could fix that for about $70. The rim brakes are going to be great and they are going to be less maintenance. Only issue is if you ride in a lot of wet conditions where they would be an advantage. I'm not sure you'd notice a difference in 631 vs 853, in fact I'm pretty sure you wouldn't.

That said, the geometry and tubing size selection is what matters. Do some test rides and that might point up significant differences in the bikes. If not, go for the Jamis.

I *think* but am not sure, that the Jamis will be a quicker handling bike with it's steeper HT and ST angles and it's higher bottom bracket. I think the Jamis will allow a more upright posture with it's longer HT. So, it's probably a horse a piece and it's going to to come down to which one do you enjoy riding more. I do think the Jamis is the better deal in terms of components etc... presuming the rides are similar. That said, if you rode the Jamis and the Kona's ride was much better, then it wouldn't matter and you should get the Kona.

I think that's about what I paid for my Gunnar Crosshairs when I built it out at 105. I think a Gunnar Sport would run about the same. Then you get to pick the components that you want but both would probably be slightly more.

J

rpenmanparker 

^^^ Keep in mind that steep seat tube angle can be a problem for folks who like to ride far back from the bottom bracket. It can be hard to get enough setback with today's low setback seatposts. Jus' sayin'.

exime

Thanks for the input. I agree the Jamis is a lot of bike for the price whereas the Kona looks like it's right about where it should be priced being one of the first bikes to have flat-mount disc tech. The blog i was reading was wrong though it looks like the Kona Roadhouse is $2400 not $2500 according to the Kona website so that's a nice surprise.

I called my local Kona dealer (who also is a Jamis dealer) and he said the Kona Roadhouse won't be stocked. When he saw the bike online he was like "Oh wow that's a cool bike." lol. So no test rides any time soon. He also doesn't normally stock Jamis Quest Elite so that might be a special order. He's getting back to me tomorrow to tell me if they are getting any in stock to ride though. The 2016 Jamis he expected would be available around October/November.

The Kona Kapu does look nice too though I wouldn't mind giving that a test ride.

I was doing some close comparisons and I agree with you J. The Jamis looks like it has a more upright position. But I'm not going to lie, that Kona sure looks comfy! Although I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference between the 631 or the 853. The Kona does have a much more modern look and the Jamis a classic look.

Maybe since I have a long wait I'll have to price out a Gunnar for the hell of it.

JohnJ80

I was just talking to Gunnar about another thing with my Crosshairs. They recommend cant's for dust and dirt environments and disc for wet and muddy based on their experience. They don't have a preference since they sell both style frames. I think the canti recommendation would apply to the rim brake vs disc brake thing as well. So if you are not going to be riding in the wet or steeps or both, then rim brakes are likely the ticket.

Half the fun of buying a new bike is looking at all of the data.

J.

exime

Thanks for the tip. I just got en email from my bike shop saying the Roadhouse is available now. So the guy I talked to on the phone was wrong. Unfortunately I can't test ride the bike though because he said that it's only a special order bike.

It doesn't sound like they are stocking the Quest either. It looks like it's going to be a data and gut decision.

mawashi

exime,

I'm curious why you only choose these bikes?

adrenalinebikes has quite a few decent bikes at great prices on their clearance and on sale bikes.

IMO for $2,400 the Ritchey Logic 2.0 looks better and you get ultegra and disks.

exime

Well I've been biking since I could walk and I've always owned a bike but I never got into expensive bikes or road biking so while I'm at home on a bike, shopping and understanding the best deals, components, etc is very foreign to me. Now that I'm getting serious about the hobby and biking around 40 miles a day, my aluminum hybrid flat bar isn't cutting it. They just seemed like good bikes with good components nice designs.

I'll take a look at the adrenalinebikes options though thanks for the tip.

dr_lha

I realize this is some confirmation bias on my part, but I'm happy to hear this as it matches my experience of Ti bikes also.

dr_lha

FYI you can't put disc brakes on a Logic, unless there's some magic going on that I'm not aware of. Ritchey makes a disc capable SwissCross frame though.

Bandera

This thread reminds me of the cycling fairy tale where Goldilocks was a direct descendant of the Princess who could not abide the pea and was searching for the endurance frame that was:

Not too Stiff
Not too Flexy
But Just Right

-Bandera

rpenmanparker 

Which suggests the real problem with steel and Ti bikes (both of which I own and love): Their lack of general availability in local stores makes it super tough to find that "just right" one for you. In a major city you can test brands and models of CF and Al to your heart's content. If you can't find one you like, it isn't the market's fault.

But with steel and Ti most purchases are made on faith unless you happen to know someone just your size who owns the bike you think you want OR the limited stock at the LBS fortuitously overlaps your desires. And you still have to like it after you have ridden it. If you don't, you're back in the boat with all the other steel and Ti wannabee owners trying to figure out where to place your bet.

Some folks think custom solves the problem, but I strongly disagree. Trusting a builder to get a one-off special order just the way you hoped it would be is irrational.

In some cases like with Lynskey you can return a bike if you don't like it. That is a tremendous advantage. But as far as other brands go, not so much. Thank Heaven for ebay. At least we have a vehicle for trial and error. If you buy a Ritchey Logic 2 and don't like it, you can easily sell it at a moderate loss and try again. That's what I did with my Everti Falcon Ti frame. I thought I liked it until I compared it head-to-head on the same course with my CF bike and realized how badly I was being beaten up on it. I was able to sell it for $300 less than it cost me and buy a Merlin Works CR that I absolutely love. Like they say, "it's just the cost of doing (steel and Ti bike) business."

Jarrett2

Just when I start to value Bandera's input, he goes and makes a post like this

rpenmanparker, you're correct. If you want something other than what the industry is force feeding you (AL or CF) it gets really tough to test them out. This thread has clearly shown that if nothing else. I suspect there a lot of people that spent a ton on a custom or limited availability bike with no return policy and then they are stuck with it when they get it because there's no way to sell that bike for anywhere near what they paid for it. Of course, they are going to say, "It's the greatest!" even if they secretly know they don't like it as much as another bike they rode and passed on. Not to mention there's usually a club of owners that all chant the same thing, so a dissenting opinion is uncomfortable to have. Cognitive dissonance and all.

I'm not that guy. I know what I like after some experimentation and I'm willing to say when the emperor has no clothes when its applicable. In the meantime, I'll keep checking out bikes as I can and making decisions with my wallet despite what anonymous Internet posters think I should or should not do

Jarrett2

I admit I was a little bummed about this. I really like the pros of titanium, plus I just love the looks of them. But just not enough to ride something I don't enjoy. Every time I get on my steel bikes, they just feel right in a way that all the other non steel bikes I've ridden just do not. I just wish modern, lightweight steel bikes were more readily available. Maybe its a good thing they are not, I'd probably have more in the garage, hehe.

exime

Yea I just came to that realization yesterday. I live in a major city and I can't test ride 1 steel Kona or Jamis bike. It would come down to a gut feeling purchase.