rpenmanparker 

Introductory pricing for a new technology is no indicator of the long term pricing. Also don't forget that new technologies are most often not priced based on costs, but rather based on value-what the market will bear.

jtaylor996

I'm guessing there's $70 worth of servo/rx in each dérailleur. $20 max for the battery...

Maconi

I don't understand the need to shift the front. I'm new to biking but all that matters is the gear ratio right? So why not just have it shift the front automatically to hit the next ratio perfectly? Doesn't Shimano let you do this (through programming the box to tell it what chainring/cassette you have)?

JohnJ80

Actually, for something like this, the cost of goods sold is almost secondary compared to looking for a payback on the R&D. The GCN video has an interview with one of the SRAM Engineers who mentions they spent 5 years testing in the lab on top of the product development. That's a factor of 2 or 3 longer than typical electronic developments. This might very well have been a "bet the company" move if you were to look at the financial cost of developing this.

JohnJ80

Maconi - I believe Shimano does have a mode similar to what you describe in the DI2 Mtb group.

TrojanHorse

Not sure if Shimano does or doesn't, but if it were me, I'd only want the front der moving when I tell it to. It's slower, for one thing (at least on mechanical systems), and now you're shifting front and back to get the next gear... I don't know, seems like it's not necessary.

Thenyou get the replication... 50/22 is nearly identical to 34/15 - why even shift to that ratio.

Interesting question though, maybe if it were smart enough to skip the close duplicates?

Mumonkan

sram is like the king of 1x, theyre probably looking ahead

i think this system would rock with a single ring drivetrain

rpenmanparker 

With mechanical it is not desirable to double shift, to shift both front and back. That is why there is overlap between the gears available on the two rings. Basically it is two sets of overlapping gear ratios. One for flats, uphill and into the wind, the other for flats, downhill, and with the wind. Ideally you stay on one ring until the terrain or wind direction changes. And you don't try to go from one gear ratio to the next closest when you shift, but rather from one ratio to the next closest on that same ring. Electronic shifting obviates the double shifting problem to some extent, but it is still desirable to only shift the rear as much as possible. What an automatic shift system will look like eventually (in response to changes in power output/requirement) is another story.

Leinster

It's surprising that the etap seems to have been developed completely independently of the WiFli and 1x systems, as you'd think the 3 would complement each other very well. No hydraulic brake option either? Do people working on new systems at Sram just not talk to other people at the company working on other new systems?

The combination will surely come about in the 2017 range you would think, or at the very least whenever etap starts filtering down to Force etc.

GlennR

I'd bet they are in development and will available shortly.

bt

This could be a sign that disc brakes aren't gonna be as popular as once thought, seeing how they're not incorporated in this new wireless electric shifting group.

Mumonkan

considering this has supposedly been in development for 5 years, im sure they have a whole slew of **** based on the wireless concept, discs, hydro levers, longer cage rds, 1x, and whatever other "standards" they might want to join in on

rpenmanparker 

It is imperative SRAM get this thing out into the market ASAP. Shimano and maybe also Campy must be hot on their heels. This is SRAMs chance for redemption, they don't want to blow it. So picking the biggest potential seller and getting it commercial is the number one priority. Other variations can come along afterward, but SRAM has to plant its flag on this very quickly now. Clearly rim brakes are the base case that has to be introduced first.

JohnJ80

Sounds like SRAM has been concentrating on functionality and reliability. If they screw either one of those up, they'd be toast in this business. To make all those other changes is going to require a ton of money into tooling. I'm sure they are trying to get the basics right and then will extend. That said, I'm pretty sure this was a bet the company investment for them and branching out into all those other areas can't be done until they get the rest of this right.

The rumor Ive heard is that Shimano already has a wireless system pretty much ready but there was no reason to go out and capitalize on their own market at this point.

At this point, speed to market is not going to be as important as getting it right. Shimano and to a much lesser degree Campy are already out there with their systems so it's not like they are beating anyone to market except for FSA. SRAM has had issues with recalls and can't afford to screw this one up. If there was a problem with reliability or missed shifts, the entire product line would be toast and SRAM would forever be stuck with the label of not being able to do electronic shifting. As conservative as the bike equipment world is, it would be decades before they could get past that.

There is also the steep learning curve that is going to come with having production units in the field. General purpose users lack no creativity in making things fail or finding ways to use this stuff that the original designs did not contemplate. SRAM needs that feedback in order to extend the system. If this is a bet the company investment, as I believe it is, they are going to make sure that they don't jeopardize that by jumping the gun in any way. They've already been deliberative in testing this - a very good thing, I think - and hopefully that argues well for this being a long term successful product. I'm not an SRAM fan but we all win when there is good competition and a robust set of competitors so I hope they do this right.

J.

JohnJ80

I believe that is accounted for in the Shimano MTB XTR Di2 "Synchro" modes S1 or S2. Manual mode is equivalent to how it currently works on the road systems. That means the capability is there, it's just a matter of system programming.

J.

grolby

Calling it a "bet the company" move sounds dramatic, and drama is appealing, but is there any evidence for that? SRAM is doing fine, it's hard for me to believe that eTap failing would sink the ship. That notwithstanding, I otherwise agree. There's no good reason for them to try and do too many things at once.

WalksOn2Wheels

I wouldn't disagree with that statement in terms of the road market specifically. They are doing strong in many other aspects, including offroad suspension (RockShox) and other businesses under their umbrella (Zipp). There are a LOT of factors that play into this, but the recent Hydro brake release was dismally bad for their reputation. If they were going to take a big step like this, it's best to play it 100% safe. It looks like a really solid group, so I'm curious to see how it does. I don't think I like the FD shifting feature, but whatever. It's still pretty cool and innovative to start from scratch rather than mimic their DoubleTap system.

Now all that said, holy crap, when did I get so old? I'm only 32, but in the last year, I got a mortgage and a (used) BMW. Now I'm looking at a new bike build and I'm totally repulsed by electronic shifting and disc brakes. Like I want zero to do with them now. I can already see myself in 15-20 years talking about "the good old days" and attending "vintage" Gran Fondo events with my Domane. I am becoming the boring white guy I've always despised.

Ok, so maybe I do want disc brakes, just not right now. And yeah, I'll probably buy an electric shift bike in 5-10 years. I'm such a sucker.

JohnJ80

In terms of financially "betting the company", probably not. In terms of road bike drivetrain futures maybe so - so strategically then, yes. If they screwed this up and it turned into a technical fiasco in the marketplace, then they'd be out of the electronic business for all intents and purposes. That would hurt their future road business in a big way and probably their mtb business since we see Shimano pushing into the mtb electrics now and it seems to be pretty well received.

It seems that the strategic pieces, especially where tech is involved, are getting ever more high stakes. Lots of examples where failing to do the strategic thing correctly earlier led to the demise of the company later. So in that sense, "bet the company" is just as real, maybe even more so, when strategic developments fail.

J.

rpenmanparker 

This could be, but it would be a horrible business decision. Purposely letting a third competitor into this game with a superior development when you could beat them to it would be foolish indeed. Why play catch up on purpose?

Timing the introduction of next gen products is an important skill for marketers. Not jumping the gun is important, but waiting too long is nobody's best plan.

Leinster

This. Unless Shimano is prepping a WiFi-OneBy-12speed-hydrodisc-thruaxle-allroad 1:1-thru-5:1 CVT group that is equally at home on MTB, Gravel, road and TT, there's no reason to sit on it while SRAM steals a march.

JohnJ80

Hey, it's their money. I'm willing to let them make their own decisions with it. I was just trying to explain what would be the reasoning behind doing it the way that they are. Getting it right in the bike business counts a lot more than it does in other businesses where you launch at 1.0 and correct all the problems with 2.0. I don't think they have that luxury here so I'd submit they are probably going as fast as they can go.

J.

rpenmanparker 

Without a doubt.

HazeT

They use AES128 Encryption, there is no risk in being shifted or shifting someone else.

Well, sram website suggests $2,758 MSRP, that's about the same as Dura Ace Di2 isn't it? If they are the same price I would probably take eTAP over DA Di2. assuming I was going to buy a DA anyways.

scott967

So one report says the derailleurs have accelerometers on them and put the system to sleep when not moving. So how would you set this up on a stand?

If SRAM comes out with a WiFli RD for this I would be interested, though at the Force level probably more realistic price-wise. I was thinking about fitting a red 22 crankset anyway so maybe could jump-start by waiting for the etap cranks.

scott s.
.

TrojanHorse

Well, gee whillikers, it's the same sky high price as DA.

The point being... almost $3,000 and you don't even have a frame or wheels yet. Mechanical red is a full grand cheaper and if you don't need the microscopic advances and weight advantage of Red, Force is almost a grand cheaper yet. It's just a lot of money to drop on a groupset and I'm not even shy about spending money on bike toys.