This PSIMET has some strange thoughts. I tried to get him to price me some road carbon clinchers 50 deep by 23 wide, because I read a lot about him and he appeared to be a stand up guy. I weigh in at 195 and live in the Missouri ozarks (smalls Hills not mountains). He basically would not price clinchers to me as he said that they would not work for me. Too Heavy and too many hills He said.

Went elsewhere and have been thoroughly pleased with my my 40 Deep X 25 Wide avenger no name carbon clinchers. Rock solid, great braking and have not needed any truing. Just turning 4000 miles on this set after I ran a chinese set of clinchers 23 wide by 50 deep for another 4000 miles last year. (sold them with my last bike).

He may build good wheels but he doesn't understand what works with road riders and carbon wheels or his wheels don't work as well as others. He needs to understand that carbon clinchers are not what they were 4 or 6 years ago.

An advantage to owning a business is being able to pick and choose your customers.

I asked about Carbon Clinchers, Rob advised me to stay away from them.

I'm taking that advice.

I value someone who tells it like it is instead of telling my what i want to hear to make a sale.

Ultra light components on very fast bikes with heavy riders can have SERIOUS consequences.

It's not a perfect science; no obvious right and wrong. I think there are worse things than being a bit too conservative as a wheelbuilder. Imagine the other scenario: he builds for someone in your shoes but feels a little uneasy about - then they fail, he loses money trying to stand behind the product, and that customer still gives him bad press.

Sounds like prudent advice from someone concerned about your safety and his reputation rather than making a couple of quick bucks.

Doesn't Levi Leipheimer ban carbon clinchers on one of his fondo rides?

Imagine how expensive his liability insurance would become if he gets involved in a huge lawsuit.

Sounds like a guy building wheels who is living in 5 years ago technology. Carbon clinchers are proven good technology and most have 220-250 lb weight limit.

Psimet needs to catch up with the times they are changing.

I have 8000 miles of great experience and there are many others that have much more experience.

The wheel building industry has established that carbon clinchers are proven technology for this type of application and this little wheel builder needs to catch up with current technology that is proven and get informed.

I love how some people on this forum think they know better than people actually in the industry.

Okay Jackmen, I'll message Rob and tell him to get informed. I should probably catch up to the times as well since I run 28f/32r alloy even though I'm under 250.

gives me an idea...

there is a bike club around here named "53x11" i always thought the name a bit pretentious. it's even emblazoned on their jersy.

i think i might start a club and call it "28x32", if you don't mind. just for kicks.

Fair Trade Organic Coffee for Cyclists - 53x11Coffee.com

Those guys? They come in our shop once a while, pretty cool guys!

This is one big reason why the true experts, people that actually are in the industry/sport, don't post here.

Notice how BDop is rarely here?

Yep. And why should he? He makes helpful and informative posts and he's constantly criticized. I can think back to maybe 10 or 12 industry experts who got driven away. When I first joined I remember people being critical of Dr. Andrew Coggan's posts. He didn't stay around long at all.

A bit harsh on all the LBSs, no?

Don't mean to be a contrarian for the sake of being one, but as consumers, we are trained to be a little skeptical about "people in the industry" because they clearly have something to promote. Not saying any of them here did that here.

There was another thread about BDop wheels, and just like this thread the ONE PERSON in the whole world who was unhappy with his stuff showed up and started crapping all over the thread for everyone. If I was in the business I wouldn't bother posting either.

Not the best example you could have picked.....

Which insider that no longer posts here would you have picked?

No. Wheels are not their forte. Wheels are about technique. LBS mechanics may have it or not. It is too big a risk to take.

Quite the contrary. 6 years ago I was one of the first readily available builders building on full carbon clinchers. I was one of the first touting how well they performed under many conditions.

You ever seen a wheel come apart on a rider while they're descending? It doesn't give a big warning. Those things perform well with "no problems at all" until they ....have a problem. Luckily I have only seen it happen on premium stuff. The stuff that companies will tell you straight to your face won't have problems.

I have no desire to sell a carbon clincher to a rider who is too heavy for them in an area where he'll be going on long descents and most likely dragging the brakes.

In reality consumers have a really hard time understanding that the resins in different rims operate at different temperatures and insist on running incorrect compounds because "it says carbon on it". Those are the same consumers that turn around and ream the wheelbuilder the second their "expensive" (half the price of a premium set) wheelset has a problem because they used the wrong pads.

Dealing with every customer it becomes apparent who is going to be that customer. When they make demands and we don't even have a transactional arrangement and swear they know more because they read it in a marketing piece or because another builder was willing to take their money...then it saves me time. Let the other builder have the headache. I'll keep building what works best for the situations needed.

Case in point - a very popular - large alloy rim manufacturer is having a ton of issues. The issues are with the rims. Even though I stand behind everything I do I am still fighting a chargeback because the rim had issues and although I fought the rim company owner for warranty on it I am getting a response of "well it shouldn't have been like that...." as justification for the chargeback.

Rim company is fine. Customer ends up fine. I end up screwed because I stood behind the product that wasn't even mine and took care of the customer who has a consumer electronics commodity buying perception of the world.

.....so yeah....when a heavy guy is brazenly over confident about how right they are about their application despite my warnings then yeah - it becomes a no-quote. Saves me a helluva lot of money and time in the long run.

I agree with your way of doing business.

I've worked in shops that operate like that, and have noticed that the customer isn't always right. It's nice when you aren't forced to except everyone's business just because they chose to walk into your shop.

The "industry" part of the industry that you are referring to doesn't bother coming out to a forum and posting anything. Mainly because their bosses would fire them if they did. Any company in the industry that is large enough to have more than a couple of people working at it pretty much forbids anyone from posting anything publicly without having it first go through a marketing department, etc.

Think about it. You work for a company just like that odds are. The bike "Industry" is no different. Most likely if you hit the internet in a forum regarding your company's products and then started saying anything bad about other companies or good about yours your company would come down on you like a ton of bricks - even if it was true.

Say you're walking through a state fair and a company has a guy doing a spiel about how great his products are - YUP HE has something to sell.

There have been a long line of shills on bikeforums in the past. They usually get run out of town on a rail. Most of "us" industry people are the little industry people. Single to small business guys either hocking our own product or services or importing and branding. Sure we have a lot invested but in general the main share of our business clients don't come from an online forum. Let's face it - most forums are made up of people who don't like buying things from people they know. They would rather buy from big faceless brands or tiny unknown guys than the guys that actually take time to discuss things with them one on one. Disagree with it if you want but the numbers reflect that. As a business I would be much better off never posting anywhere.

The responses to a lot of stuff on here have gotten progressively worse. At least in the past the number of glaringly incorrect posting, fan boys, flame throwers and trolls would be wrangled in by those that were in the know at least a little. With Facebook, Twitter and Instagram taking over for those industry connections and personal connections many of us have just walked away from the forums.

I still try and get back when I can. I like to hop in every now and then and at least take a look. I've got nothing to gain by it really. I seem to just piss people off and make them jump back in a fight. So why do it? I don't know...I guess I just love bikes, the community and the industry and I can't stand seeing ignorance perpetuated. I've taken a lot of time and used a lot of connections to learn what I have.

I grew up in Cedarville Ill pop 275 in the 60's & 70's, went to high school in Freeport, been a Chicago Bears fan since i've been taking a dump.

I raced motocross on Yamaha's in the 70's in Byron I'll, doing my own work and repairs.

Doing wheelies and tearing out the rear end on Tractors & anything with an engine i've tested the limits of the model on everything with wheels & gears for 50 years.

I break things ... without trying.

Carbon Bicycles are not engineered for middle aged NFL Linemen, unless they're 170 lbs [and they ain't].

Im sorry for the controversy some have started but i stand by my intent of making this thread.

Rob, you are GREAT !!! I was sold the first time out of the box i saw your video.

NOT ALL WHEELS ARE MADE FOR ALL PEOPLE but most bike shops spin it that way.

I have your quote, let me get thru the holidays i just got a house, i want your wheels.

I'm in ST LOUIS and the CUBS are about to spank the Cardinals i think, they're overdue by 90 years.

Peace out ...

I was thinking about this the other day, it's actually sort of sad. Over the years I've been a regular on a number of special interest forums. Bikes, aviation, laptops, cameras, auto racing, ect. There has been a steady decline in forum use across almost all forums (Redd.it being the exception) since social media apps started drawing everyone's attention away.

In my opinion that's a shame because the forum format of a list of user-generated topics and replies in one place is a great one, much less cluttered or convoluted than wading through facebook wall posts or instagram comments ect.

Anyway, that's off topic. I appreciate the way you do business, Rob. Speaking for myself, if I'm ever in the market for wheels where I have specific needs other than as little $$ as possible, I would absolutely look into buying some from you.