Nhmountainman

Hi guys, I have 2 new bikes both with SRAM 11 speed cassettes, both running double chain rings up front. One set is Red, the other Rival.

Bike shop A set up the Rival bike perfectly with the Rival. I can ride every gear on the rear and the front derailleur handles it without any rub. (I don't care to have any cross chasing discussions). It's a race bike and everything works amazingly well.

Bike shop B set up the Red bike different...when on the front small chainring, it rubs the front derailleur on the smallest 11 tooth rear cog...when I look down, I feel like there is plenty of room in the derailleur cage to avoid the rub. Likewise, when on the big front ring, I cannot use the top 3 largest cogs on my cassette without rubbing the front derailleur.

Discussed this issue with Bike shop B and they say I'm supposed to shift before it starts to rub. Really, with SRAM Red? So in a race I have think about shifting to my smaller chainring and keep my speed while shifting the rear and find the next right gear? I call BS.

Can you ride all your gears with a Yaw front derailleur? I used to use all my gears on my 10 speed non-yaw derailleurs bikes.

rpenmanparker 

So tell me why there are two bike shops involved. Why don't you go back to A?

bikepro

These instructions are as good as any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnG3t7TyRm0

RR3

Small-small wastes watts.

Shop B is trying to teach you to ride.

joejack951

And large-large saves watts but he can't use that either. So to me it sounds like shop B simply doesn't know how or care to fix the issue. Perhaps demonstrating the Rival gear train might give them a wake up call.

pdedes

i wonder which shop isn't RTFM?

Nhmountainman

Thanks for the replies and questions...there are 2 bikes shops as not every shop carries the bike you want. With Bike shop B it seems that every mechanical adjustment ends in a failure and a second and third adjustment...tired to going back. Thanks for the video link...it proves again that Bike shop B's 20-something mechanics don't know what they're taking about. I don't care if small small wastes watts, I should be able to use the damn gear if I want. Joejack951...good idea about the demo!

rpenmanparker 

When you say you should be able to use the small-small gear combination if you want, keep in mind that is only true for a drive train that has been designed to allow it. It has seldom been possible on SRAM systems until the Yaw derailleur was introduced. It simply wasn't a feature that was provided for by the design. You can pay shop A to work on B's bike. Nothing wrong with that. But if you are going to be demanding regarding your derailleur adjustment, you really need to learn how to do it yourself. It is just what cyclists do.

Now for another point: you don't mention whether you have a standard or compact crank, but you do say it looks like there is space in the derailleur for rubbing to not occur. Is your crank compact, 34/50. On many if not most bikes with a compact crank, the small-small combination is unusable even with a Yaw derailleur. It has nothing to do with the derailleur. The chain rubs the large chain ring as it passes by it on the way to the rear and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. It is simply that the large chain ring is in the line going from the small to the rear small cog. That doesn't happen with a 39/53 chain ring combination because the difference in teeth between the rings is only 14 teeth instead of 16 teeth. In fact on many compact crank bikes the TWO smallest cogs can't be used with the small chain rings. Check to see if that is your problem.

bykemike 

After messing around with my Sram Force 11 speed I am able to ride all the gears at any time but with a tiny amount of rub when in small/small.

I found the stop adjustments to be very sensitive and require a light touch to get where you need them. I do all my own work on my own Park stand and I am able to devout more time to this than a bike shop probably would be willing to.

Only issue I have with the current set up is when I am in the 34/11 , (usually an error caused by adrenaline rush when cresting after a climb) and throw the FD to the big ring I run a chance of big ring derail.

When looking at the extreme cross chaining in the 34/11 spot I can see how this would always be a possibility and I try not to be in that gear.

bykemike 

Oh yeah, and what penman said too

joejack951

It's possible that he is running one compact and one standard crank but you'd think he mention that. He did mention that he has one bike which works perfectly as designed (no rub in any combination) and one, ironically with higher spec components, that does not. Either SRAM really truly does suck at front derailleurs, or shop B is the real problem.

I can't disagree that knowing how to tune one's own derailleurs is a very useful skill but some people simply have zero interest in doing so. If I had paid a shop the money for a SRAM Red 11 speed bike, I would expect at least enough effort from them to get my front derailleur working properly.

rpenmanparker 

Yaw derailleurs are different beasts. SRAM equipment is in the minority. It may not be lack of effort, just lack of ability. Bicycles are a lot like British sports cars used to be in the mid-20th century. If you wanted to drive one on Sunday, you had to have been prepared to work on it from Monday through Saturday. Having zero interest in keeping up your own bike is a recipe for disappointment.

joejack951

Are you making excuses for SRAM or something? Their whole marketing push for those yaw derailleurs is that they don't require trim. Is their equipment that bad that something they emphasize as the main selling feature that 'changes everything' (https://www.sram.com/sram/road/produ...ont-derailleur) doesn't work? I don't get it.

Lest you think I'm ragging on SRAM, I'm not. I just can't understand why you think it's acceptable for this guy's front derailleur to not work properly.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by Shimano but I need to devote the equivalent of about one day of work per year (summing all of my work) to keeping my bike functioning flawlessly, and that assumes I'm riding that bike 100+ miles/week. No big name's equipment used by pros should be that bad that it needs constant attention. Shop B simply sucks as far as I'm concerned. The alternative is that SRAM shouldn't be in the bike business.

Again, I can't disagree that having zero interest in maintaining a bike isn't a great strategy but that's still no excuse for the situation the OP is in.

topflightpro

Sram FDs have always been rather finicky, and the Yaw ones require even more care when setting them up.

That said, once set up properly, they work very well. (Some had issue with the original Red FD, but mine worked fine for many years.)

rpenmanparker 

You misread my post. SRAM stuff is the best IMO. I was saying that most shops don't see a lot of SRAM and aren't familiar with how to deal with it. Many folks try to treat it like Shimano or Campy, and that won't work. I am a devoted SRAM user, and it causes me no problems, but I have taken the trouble to learn how to adjust it. I said the shop didn't have the ability but meant they didn't know how.

joejack951

Ok, that makes much more sense.

Psimet2001 

Most of the time when you set up SRAM FDs according to the instructions they will generally rub at the extreme small/small combo. You can easily set up the systems - all of them - to not rub. You generally have to run the FD lower than you would normally and need to really tweak the tension on the cable. I always put a barrell adjuster on the front derail side and you tend to have to run high tension but if you tweak the limits and drop it slightly on the frame then you usually get stellar performance.

Nhmountainman

I have to agree on a few points...I don't use small-small so I don't care if there is rub there. What I do use consistently is big-big. On my new SRAM Red bike, i get rubbing on large large and the 2nd and 3rd largest cogs on the rear. This Red bike from Bike shop A is 52 tooth big ring. So based on other posts, this bike should be the easiest to adjust. With the Yaw FD, there is no trim. IMO, if I spend the $ for Red, it should work perfectly. Should I be able to adjust it myself? Sure...but Bike shop A should be able to adjust better than I, especially why it's brand new.

My Rival bike has a 46 big ring and works flawlessy in every gear. It seems to be a matter of experience in one shop vs another. I'll likely give Shop A the chance to adjust it correctly.

I got got my answer from you guys and a great video, so thank you for your thoughtful replies! Cheers!

RR3

I have Dura Ace on two bikes and SRAM Red 11 speed on two.

When set properly, the SRAM never needs tweaking unlike Sheet Ma No.

Redbullet

Uuups! So, is it the same for SRAM Force 11, with 52/36 crank? I noted that 36 teeth in combination with the smallest cog (11 teeth) always makes some noise. I made some minor adjustments, but I could not fix it, so I left it as it is. I don't use it because it is not reccomended.

However, should I understand that 36/11 can not work smooth, no matter what?

Thanks

Nhmountainman

36/11 works perfectly on my Rival bike...it should work on my Red bike too...

rpenmanparker 

36/11 should not be as bad as 34/11. And the chain stay length matters. The longer the stays, the less the problem because the angle is smaller. But just look at it. You can see the chain touching the large ring as it goes by.

Oh, and it has nothing to do with SRAM or any other brand/model. It is all geometry.

rpenmanparker 

Are the chain stays longer on the Rival bike? That can resolve the problem.

Oh, I just realized your big ring on the Rival bike is tiny. That is the difference. A 46 tooth ring won't foul the chain coming pfrom a 36 tooth ring.

joejack951

So I have to say good call on the two different sized cranksets. I ASSuMEd and should know better.

Now as to why big-big doesn't work on the Red bike, that still seems like an LBS-ability issue.

rpenmanparker 

Agreed!