I'm telling you, it's not that big of a deal. And if you ride in the drops a lot you will appreciate Sram's levers much more.

Burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. You stated SRAM is junk, so prove it.

I know the facts, and couldn't possibly care less whether you believe it or not.

That may be, but I've tried many different cable tensions and could never quite get this right for all gears. If I get it right for the taller gear, i.e. for it not to jump back when it's already at the tallest gear, then it shift very sluggishly for the rest when upshifting.

I think this gets the crux of the reason some don't like SRAM: shifting in either the Shimano or Campagnolo system is unambiguous; do this, it upshifts, and do that, it downshifts. SRAM overloaded the shift levers with two functions, and some people could never quite get to the point of feeling completely comfortable with it.

Well, it's possible, just letting you know that.
As for the ambiguity.. eTap is going to rock. I'm already saving my pennies.

Well, if you have facts, then you have proof. Post it up, or post a link. Otherwise they're just words that hold next to no weight.

Right, because SRAM never has problems with the 1st generation of their components.

Well, if there are problems then I won't buy it, if not, I will. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Post a link to 8+ years of professional experience? I know the truth, whether you accept it or not doesn't matter to me.

Apparently it does matter. The only fact and truth about professional experience is that you have claimed professional experience in the blogosphere. Claiming a higher failure rate, without empirical data is not a truth. Bias is still an unsubstantiated opinion, regardless of the profession. Holding the same opinion for any length of time does not validate that opinion.

I know a lot of mechanics, with a lot more than 8 years of experience, all with their own biases. "Fords suck, I'm a Chevy man! I know, from experience that fords break down more often. It's the truth" is one arbitrary example.

All I'm trying to do is inject some logic into your statements.

Doubtful the have much more experience with SRAM road components.

Aren't you being a little bit disingenuous? Fess up. There isn't anything that BoSoxYacht could say that you would find convincing. I mean there is no way he can have world-wide data for all of Shimano, Campy, and SRAM components with their actual mechanical failure specifics and relative problem counts. Clearly the best he can do is somewhat anecdotal, but still relevant due to relating to many, many cases not just his personal experience with his own bike. I have never bought into the BS like "pics or it didn't happen," that you see so often on forums. And that goes for "published data or it isn't true" also. That is just a dodge to avoid accepting the sensible reality that is being presented to you. And that is what I meant by being disingenuous. You have no reason to disbelieve him, but you want to, so you say his data isn't good enough. Much better would be for you to refute his claims with a data pool at least as deep as his. And keep in mind all this comes from a person who only rides SRAM on three bikes and never plans to change.

I wouldn't say I'm being disingenuous, but more of a practiced skeptic. I have every reason to disbelieve, since claims are made without proof. Stating something like SRAM sucks and has a high failure rate, without the proof to back the claim will not receive a benefit-of-the-doubt from me. He's trying to pass off subjective bias as objective fact, and making claims that people are being "suckered into buying" their products. Sorry, but no matter how experienced one person is, it is still an anecdote.

SRAM has a high failure rate = bad logical statement without proof.
SRAM has a high failure rate in my experience = getting better, but still not a logical statement without showing what that rate is.
I see more SRAM components in my shop needing repair/replacement than the other brands = better still, but you still need the numbers to back that statement.
I don't like SRAM = this is a good statement, and logical, since it states an opinion from the user, of the user's own.

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...-came-off.html

I have SRAM Red S22 on three bikes with one derailleur/shifter combination logging more than 20,000 flawless miles.

I have 2 sets of 10 speed Dura Ace and one set of Ultegra 10 speed. They suck

Agree. I love the ability to let my finger float on the shifter while I transition from the bottom of the drops to the hoods, and shift in any position in between.

I had been riding Shimano on all of my bikes until this year. I bought a used bike with Rival/Force 10-speed on it with the plans of replacing it with Shimano.

The opposite happened. After spending some time with the SRAM bike, I got rid of Shimano on all of my bikes and only ride SRAM groupsets now.

I'm not going to say anything sucks or anything is better. I've just ridden both and want SRAM on my bikes, and so that's what's on all of them now.

Also, I've ridden Claris to Ultegra and there are noticeable differences between them. I've also ridden Apex to Red and the differences are much more subtle.

Also, if you check the weights of the groupsets, Rival is closer to Ultegra (85 grams diff) than it is to 105 in weight. Something to consider when comparing prices.

FWIW- I have used SRAM for a few years now (only the lowly Apex) and have logged a few thousand miles. It has been working great. I have no complaints so far with shifting or reliability. If I were to upgrade, I would have no problem buying SRAM. Here is a good video about the differences to consider: Art's Cyclery Blog » SRAM Road Components ? Where to Spend Your Money

that was definitely worth a few minutes of time. surprised at the rival RD and brakes recommendations, but definitely something to consider for the next build.

I saw the video before, but unfortunately I didn't see anyway that buying the individual components would make it cheaper then the whole group. The best option that I found would be buy the FORCE 22, sell crankset and shifters on ebay and then buy RED22 crankset/shifters. that would end up costing me $800 I guess and would make a FORCE/RED mixed group.
With that said, I'm aware that I have plenty of weight to loose in my mid section and if I ever get to the point that the <1 lb from the groupset have become a deciding factor for anything, it will probably time to upgrade anyways. So for now, I'm going with Rival 22.

I always thought Sram was designed with a low total weight in mind. I don't think a professional team worries about getting to 6.8 anymore, so sram kind of fell off the map.

But hey, that one fast guy that I saw has Dura Ace, so it's going on my next bike...

What you should know is that I've been employed in the industry(at various positions) for over 3 decades(most recently as the lead mechanic at 2 different shops). I would repair(or oversee the repairs of) hundreds of bicycles every month. When I say that SRAM blows, it's because I have seen many of their components fail at a much greater rate than any other manufacturer's products.

Most people never experience a failure, but from what I have seen, SRAM road components fail more often than Campagnolo or Shimano.

BTW, SRAM isn't the worst. Mavic owns that title. Their stuff is problematic, and their customer service is the worst I've ever encountered

How is that exclusive to SRAM?

I'll PM you my mailing address. Send them to me if you hate them so much.

Have you actually ridden with a SRAM group, or just worked on them, while apparently whining incessantly to anyone listening?

FYI- The Double Tap lever is a floating design, and can be depressed for an upshift or downshift with one finger from multiple positions, all while covering the brake lever, or not. Not possible with Shimano mechanical.