cale

Performance owns Nashbar. Performance could have gone so far as to put the Lynsky bikes on their retail floor. But didn't. Why? That's the heart of this question, "Why is Lynsky now sold exclusively online through Nashbar?" That's got to hurt any dealer carrying a Lynsky frame in their retail location.

PhotoJoe 

I think I understand that what you're saying is in the Performance/Nashbar relationship, Lynskey is only available through Nashbar. I ordered mine directly through Lynskey and they shipped it to my door.

What really has me curious about this whole thing is when I ordered mine in April of 2012 (so yes, things could have changed), I had to wait until July for their next run of my frame (R230). I wonder if they'll ramp up production to meet increased sales through Nashbar or if sales have slumped in recent years, opening manufacturing capabilities.

cale

BTW, a full disclaimer. I own a Litespeed but didn't consider a Lynsky frame when I bought it last summer. I wasn't as familiar as I am now with the brand and I don't mean, in any of the posts above, to suggest that Lynsky makes anything but the finest bikes. I mean this sincerely.

Jarrett2

Caution - wild ass speculation to follow:

I bought a Lynskey this year during the time they were going through some changes in their sales process. So as part of doing my research before buying, I was feeling these changes in motion and getting a little insight on them. One of the big changes was Don leaving as the head of sales. Why that happened, I don't know. But around that time, the way they handled sales really started changing significantly.

Instead of the premium prices they had been asking, they started reducing the cost of the bikes they sold. At one point, I was talking to Lynskey directly and one of Lynskey's dealers at the same time and the dealer was shocked to hear the price that Lynskey was selling direct for as they could not match it without losing money. So there were some changes happening so fast that customers were hearing about them before the dealers.

Somewhere around then, they started up "The Loft" where they would give you blue book price trade ins on your bike towards a new Lynskey. You sent them say a 2013 Trek Madone and they would evaluate it and give you a trade in amount towards a new Lynskey. Then they would list that used Trek on sale on their loft page as well as put it on Ebay and sell it quickly.

They also started a 45-day trial period when you could order one of their bikes, have it delivered, use it for up to 45 days and return it for a full refund. If a demo bike came back, it also went onto the loft page with an even deeper discount. The bike I returned lasted about a week and half up there before someone scooped it up at a price less than what I originally paid for it. They got my refund back to me in about 4 days from when the bike returned to their factory.

Also, I noticed they were doing financing like a new car so you could pay over time. All of this along with an Amazon-esque build to suit menu on their site where you could walk through and virtually build and order a full bike built to your specs right on the website.

As I discussed frames with them, we discussed other brands and they were acutely aware of the offerings of other titanium builders and priced themselves aggressively to be more appealing. The one they could not match was BikesDirect. They seemed to be aware that lots of people were beginning to be comfortable with going to the BikesDirect site and ordering a overseas-made titanium bike or frame at a reduced price as long as they had that 30-day window in which to try it out.

So back to the original question, why is Lynskey doing all of this and why are they available at Nashbar now? I think they have seen the writing on the wall. To stay relevant and competitive (and afloat) in the modern world of cycling products, you have to produce a turn-key type service that customers are used to getting elsewhere. Like Amazon for example, or more specifically, like BikesDirect. Especially when you are dealing in a niche frame material exclusively. And they are quickly revamping to offer that it seems.

I personally think it is brilliant. They got me a custom built bike to my door in two weeks of me ordering it. That's pretty damn quick, imo. I really enjoyed my experience dealing with Lynskey and I hope they keep rolling out nice titanium bikes for years to come.

cale

I think with BD offerings of "value-priced" Ti bikes, Performance has seized upon the opportunity to expand sales, through Nasbar, in a growing (albeit still tiny) market segment.

cale

Good analysis and GREAT insight (I'll keep your speculation warning in mind).

Jarrett2

Also, if they made steel bikes, I'd buy one for sure.

cale

I think the ball is about to drop at Lynskey. Manufacturing will move overseas.

Jarrett2

I hope not, but I could certainly understand why if it did.

It's tough to produce a price-competitive, US-made product these days.

It seems you either need the hype of say a Moots to command that domestic expense or you have to offshore.

I hope that's not true and Lynskey can make it work their way.

But I can already see the slippery slope, buyer perception shift stirring even in this thread.

"Lynskey is at Nashbar? So, that means they are not as good as Moots or Seven?"

cale

I'm afraid what you write is true and that anyone making Ti frames in the US is in "danger" of losing their job.

Maelochs

Not true, and several Nashbar customers here have said so---as a longtime Nashbar customer, I will repeat it.

People who shop Nashbar expect first-quality oparts and gear at a slightly lower price, and also understand that the bikes they carry are not name brands (as a rule) but also are not cut-rate, low-quality bikes, a cut above BD in terms of parts and generally a little more expensive to reflect that. They are Not going to think Lynskeys are bargain bikes---not at those prices.

What Lynskey gains by going through Nashbar is a huge customer base. And unless Lynskey cuts its prices (which it has not---reports are that the Nashbar prices are Higher than Lynskey's website) then Lynskey is not surrendering its semi-boutique flavor or profit margin. (The frames range between $2200-$3200 on Nashbar.)

Look, Lynskey can try to protect it's "name" but if protects its name so well no one knows the name, the company goes broke.

Here is something else no one has considered---Nashbar has upped its prestige by carrying these exclusive titanium boutique frames.

It seems based on the Nashbar site’s tag—North American Exclusive Online Retailer—that this might not be a one-time deal, but that Lynskey is taking advantage of Nashbar’s market penetration to reach more customers. To me this seems like a genius business idea—Lynskey probably doesn’t have the budget for major marketing and Nashbar now gains a new profit source.

cale

How do you rationalize the comment, "unless Lynskey cuts its prices (which it has not---reports are that the Nashbar prices are Higher than Lynskey's website)" with the fact that Nashbar says they are the Exclusive Online Retailer for Lynsky?

It is my sincere belief, not to knock anyone, that Lynsky has gone broke. (Probably, as RPK79 wrote earlier, because their name was a relative unknown.)

If Nashbar (a subsidiary of Performance) has "upped" their image, it is only because Performance has moved even further up the metaphorical food chain. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that Performance is undergoing any major revisions in marketing.

The folks that make Lynsky frames may not think it a "genius" idea if their jobs go overseas. Just saying, I don't think protecting jobs will be No. 1 among Performance's criteria for vendors.

Wingsprint

I have both... my Lynskey is a better frame.

RPK79

Maybe the issue here is thinking of Nashbar as a low end dealer when they run the full spectrum of cheap house brand to high end brands.

cale

They offer high-end on a number of items. I don't confuse them with being "low end" (that's the province of "fly by night" outfits) but rather as offering solid "American" value. They have made great use of their Ohio roots to stake a claim not too dissimilar to what Walmart does. A US company that combines great customer service with solid value.

RPK79

So what's the issue?

merlinextraligh

No. I've heard personally from people I know and respect, including teammates, and a LBS owner of how they got shafted by ABG on Litespeeds after the takeover.

merlinextraligh

However good Diamondback bikes may or may not be, the brand is certainly not in the same league as Trek, Canondale, Specialized, etc. or on the level that you would have previously associated with Lynskey.

The fact that Diamondbacks are marketed by mass merchandisers takes it down below a "bike store brand" and in most people's minds puts it in the same tier as current Schwinns.

Maelochs

This is my view. Nashbar is seen as a cheap outlet ... but they have always sold some very expensive bikes. Now possibly this view will spread ... or not. Either way, Lynskey gets its frames out to more potential customers.

I go to https://lynskeyperformance.com/ and see that they are selling their own frames on their own website. I am sure Lynskey doesn’t see themselves as a retail outlet, but as a manufacturer, while Nashbar, which manufactures nothing, is a retail outlet.

Beyond that, please take it up with Nashbar and Lynskey. I did not write, edit or approve any of the advertising.

As far as whether Lynskey is going broke or not, I have no information. I would assume, however, that they need cash or credit whether they are flush or deep in the red, and a deal with Nashbar seems like a good idea. If the company really is broke, than this might keep it alive.

Obviously, if Lynskey sells the name and starts marketing frames maid in Taiwan or China, it will lose market value ... or maybe it will gain value by massively increasing sales to people who don't know or care about the Lynskey name but want an affordable Ti bike. I hope not--I'd much prefer they stay small and semi-exclusive and USA-made. However, maybe the management is tired of going broke producing quality and want to stock up some funds for their retirements.

Al pure speculation. All I know for sure is that Lynskey just put its name in front of a lot more eyeballs.

cale

That info would have changed my opinion of your comment. But as you wrote it, I thought there wasn't enough evidence to make the claim anymore than a rumor.

cale

In the league? Heck no. They're a second tier manufacturer. You've compared them to first-tier manufacturers. (I don't find it easy to put Lynsky and Diamondback in the same sentence except to say they both make bikes.)

Among those mass-marketers are Performance Bikes on the brick and mortar side as well as other sports outlets. If you think they're less than a "bike store brand" I'd recommend visiting a Performance bike shop.

Schwinn? They had a really rocky time in the early 2000's. It was full steam ahead at Raleigh America where DB engineers were innovating road bike design after a historical start in BMX and mtb segments. It was a exciting time for the group. What was Schwinn doing? Not much.

garciawork

Not saying you are wrong, as I have no clue what the company finances look like, but I would guess that is not the case. They have released disc versions of most all road bikes, which definitely cost some money (even if it didn't require huge tweaks), and they seem to be stocking more inventory rather than trying to presell, which also costs a bit more upfront. I think they are just going for more and more volume. I know they have made Ti frames for a number of other brands (not sure if this is still happening), so this is just another step in selling more bikes.

Again, I have no idea if they are broke or not. I sincerely hope not, as I LOVE their bikes. I would love an R240 disc, and a Legacy with Campy...

cale

I looked and their prices are all higher than those at the Nashbar site, the opposite of what you wrote. Which site do you think gets more hits?

Your Chattanooga choo choo aside, if you're going to dive in you might want to test the waters before you jump.

I'll bet they, in particular, hope you're right.

Well yes, they will lose some status. But Performance doesn't care. Look, if you really want to support brand image you give it the best "opportunity" you can offer. That opportunity could have been under the Performance side of the business. (Retail locations are exceedingly expensive to maintain, especially in times of growth (modest growth?).) The fact that Performance is able to negotiate this exclusivity is a strong indication of just how bad things are at Lynsky. Again, I repeat emphatically, I am not pointing fingers. $... happens.

Maelochs

Lynskey's site: R240 - Frame Only $2,000.00

Nashbar: 2015 Lynskey R240 Road Frame and Fork $2,199.99

Not seeing where prices are higher at the Lynskey site--$200 for the fork, i guess? Not that that matters. Whatever the company finances, things will play out as they do.

cale

You could have saved 20% ($440) yesterday. That's not chump change.

But then how will we keep score? Haha