QUOTE=merlinextraligh;18413517]Hum, no. Star a will always be a limited substitute for actual racing.

First there are all the uncontrollable variables, such as wind on the day, group v solo, cherry picking short segments etc.

Second, a virtual txt, even if you could control all those variables can never substitute for head to head racing, which is so much more than how many w/kg you can put out for a given segment.

So have fun with Strava, if you enjoy it, but suggest that it's more important than actual race results is absurd imho.

Heck, I doubt that Strava results are even all that predictive of actual race outcomes.[/QUOTE]
I think most of us agree that it is silly to brag about Strava standings - if a guy wants to claim he is better than anyone else, he'll have to prove it in a race. And while racing may be the only legitimate way to compare performance between competitors, it is hardly the be-all and end-all of cycling achievement. Every day we face roads that may present us exciting challenges - a certain neighborhood straightaway, a certain hill - that will never be featured in a sanctioned race. For some people, mastering such familiar challenges is more significant than how one might place in a race over some indifferent circuit on some random day. I don't see anything absurd about that. It's not about direct comparison with other riders, but ones standing and progress can be reasonably tracked as it compares to a sort of standard established by other recordings.

I didn't say using Strava is absurd.

I did say suggesting that Strava results are more important, than race results, in the context of a thread regarding comparing yourself to other riders is absurd.

Sure Strava can be fun for many, motivational for others, but it will always be a poor substitute for head to head competition in finding out where you actually stack up.

I guess I don't get what you want to disucss, OP, but sorry i sent it off into strava-hate-land.

ITTs are in the same category. Not a substitute for head to head racing, but SOME can be more meaningful. Group Strava's have their own art to them. Some like RR's, some like crits, some ITTs and Strava and some other stuff. Many racers do not post their better Strava results because they do reflect how well they do.

For racers that are not allowed the same equipment as their competitors it is head to head racing that is a fallacy. Strava can reflects who is better, while the race winner just had better suited equipment.

Specific example. My kid has to race adults with at least the top 3 cog handicap (11-12-13) and a 52+ ring. So real road racing reflects nothing if those cogs need to be used and he got dropped not having them. A Strava result where those cogs are not needed says more than the race win.

To my post which was some KOMs are more meaningful than race wins. This one is an example. Most everyone in SoCal knows this course. https://www.strava.com/segments/764232 58,320 attempts by 6,383 my son would not trade for 10 local race wins - or a state championship.

I'd suggest that's a very warped set of priorities if a Strava KOM with all its limitations is more prized than a state championship in an actual race.

It would be like an NFL running back being more proud of his 40 combine time, than scoring touchdowns to win games.

I am sorry but this is plain hog wash and typical Northern Elitism. have lived in the south most my life, except for 6 years in Boston. I find zero difference in the mentality of riders. In most cities we don't or can't commute. There are few areas with bike lanes so it only makes sense to ride back roads and country lanes. In addition, these roads are far more enjoyable to ride. The view is better and who wants to stop frequently if you don't have to. The lane less traveled is far more peaceful.
I find that most bikers are the same everywhere. In every group there are a few hammer heads but mostly easy going people.

I use Strava and enjoy the feature that lets you follow other riders. So I follow 7 or 8 guys who I ride with, some I ride with every weekend and others once a month or even once or twice a year. But I get to see when and where they are riding which sometimes gives me ideas for other rides. It's also fun following some of the pros who post their rides in pro races.

Here in Richmond it was cool to go ride our regular routes after the worlds and see that guys like Andre Greipel and Lars Boom had ridden training rides over the same roads. I had a KOM on a road that is ridden very frequently by large groups and our group happened to hit it last spring with a HUGE tailwind and I got the KOM over a bunch of guys who are head and shoulders faster than I am but must have missed the tailwind. Usually this road has a cross wind. A few buddies on the same ride were 2 seconds slower for whatever reason and we had a good laugh about it. The time stood all summer long and we would occasionally make jokes about it when we rode the segment. And then the worlds came and this supposedly fast time (29.3 mph over 1 mile) was eclipsed by like 30 seconds by the winner of the U23 time trial (Mads Schmidt) and a bunch of others. The takeaway here is that even the supposedly fast guys in town who are cat 3 or whatever racers are WAY slower than the pros who rode this segment once while we ride it every week.

There are segments from the road race and time trial courses and it's pretty cool to see how fast these guys were going in a world championship race on roads we ride all the time.

It's amusing to hear about "unsophisticated" cyclists in the South. I live on the outer edge of a mid-size metro area and at least half the folks I ride with are from elsewhere (self included.) Anyway, of course people would rather ride on country roads than in town with stop lights and traffic. I can ride from home and never have to put a foot down for hours, on a variety of routes. Who wouldn't prefer that if given a choice?

Haha! I have been using (playing with) Strava for a few months and didn't realize this "KOM" thing existed, or that I could "compete".

I use it because I ride a lot of bikes, and only have power on one.

Hmmmmm. This might change things a little! :)

It's all fun, people.

Which is why I posted it. The value is associated with the effort it takes to achieve it. There are Strava races too where the winner gets a nice trophy - or more than they might get from a state championship. That is cool.

In a RR the goal is to win. It is not to test your capabilities. Strava is different. It is about what you can do all out - if your goal is the Strava result. Group ride Strava's also have that skill/art to them. Go to the front and hammer and get everyone excited. Then drift to the back before the start, then sprint past them at the end. Like racing, it is fun and a skill. Like racing people cheat to get them.

I may not have effectively explained the situation of some riders. If they are handi-capped due to rules (junior gears), Strava will reflect much better how they are doing in un-handicapped parts. Cat P12 racers do not limit themselves to their 52X14 to make it fair for the juniors. So that a guy beats a kid says nothing about the ability of the winner vs the kid. Seeing that same kid drop them up every hill on Strava does. If you also can see the HR you can learn a lot about the rider. Strava says much more about a junior than winning a race against P12s (which is why many of the top junior coaches do not allow them to post best efforts on Strava).

Like Strava Candy? Try this: Welcome to VeloViewer!

He's just jealous that we have so many great back roads and country lanes.

I read the original post as he was asking if anyone had noticed that riders in certain areas generally being better or faster riders and in other area's riders being generally not so skilled or not so fast. I would have thought that riders in the areas of Europe, where racing is common, to be generally faster.

Pro? Europe.
Non pro 2015
-the USA kids are the fastest.
Best group rides - SoCal and lesser so NorCal. Simi, Como, Swamis, and in NorCal - the noon ride. I hear NYC has a good central park ride.

The difference being that in a race everyone is trying to win and they are racing each other in the same conditions. That's not generally the case for a Strava segment in the middle of a group ride.

Strava segment with grades above 6% are reasonably correlated with racing categories, i.e. the faster guys will always be near the top.

Is this thread about different riding styles in different communities or a Strava thread?

The two (Strava and Styles) go together. My Strava post example was of one such ride. Show me your 50K+ attempts KOMs and other than a classic mountain - it is a group ride. My post #40 listed some rides in SoCal that are as competitive as most local races. In SoCal on any Sat/Sunday there will be a mix categories and ages. There are a few types of SoCal riding communities. The get-together-coffee-group that will likely not have many who race. My wife and I are in that group now and I've joined on in other states and I don't see it as much different. Then there are the fast training rides to what I would call grass roots racing rides. Some of those have gone and become USAC permitted races, but there are others that are left unman-aged and the rules are all culture. These are to me the most fun and interesting. This time of year 1-2 World Tour riders may show up for those rides. Sagan and Cavendish were at Swamies two years ago. While those guys may not be racing for a win, it does stir up the group. So being on topic...
Each SoCal ride is a bit different. My favorite...
Como Street has long rich culture. Riders have seen deaths in the group from motorist plowing into the group to riders turning in front of cars. Como Street is is one I started riding in 1979. I ride with guys now that road Como in the 60's. It was exciting for my to get my kid there as early as I could to catch some of that culture. He spent about 2 years getting dropped. There is an annual race 1st week in December called "Rogers Cup" in memory of fallen cyclists where a 30 year old perpetual cup is awarded. Winning that gets you more SoCal attention than any race in SoCal. The route has changed slightly over the years and there were once two rides at 8:00 and 8:30 both with roughly 200 riders. Como has a very predictable start. A long 20 min around 20mph chatting start. Fast flats, more rolling moderate with less chat and long minimal grade. Then seasonally a fork to longer / harder fewer or over Cooks with the group. About 50-60 guys (and 2-3 girls) pass Cooks Corner and then hit it hard. The idea is to get a group off for the canyon decent. So once 3-4 are off they regroup and wind through the canyon while 20 or so chase and 100 or so follow. That goes on about 10 miles and then a small regrouping at the light at Jamboree and tempo chatting home. For the roadies, the race part is over. For the sprinters, they ride along, and sprint at the bridge.
About half the riders drive to the start. The others ride and join the group some point along the way. If you join by El toro road, you're considered having ridden Como. If you skip the the climbs you haven't ridden Como.

True, but I did not post about the general case. I posted first - some ... and then I posted a specific 50K+ attempts in a ride where everyone is going for it.
Junior does so 50+ races a year all over, but that doesn't change group rides being fun and in some cases more competitive than many races. The most competitive events are races. But just some races.

Both, sort of but more the former. Strava indicated something, and I thought it might have had something to do with the difference in the communities, and wanted to see what others had observed.
Kind of. I was rather thinking (hoping) that the reason I placed more poorly on so many segments in Italy than I do at home had more to do with the fact that there are a lot of mediocre riders using Strava in the US, while over there, mediocre riders don't record anything.

I can't but help think how different the prospect of pinning on a number and going to the line is from hearing someone say "let's race!" while riding around the neighborhood.

Except lotsa races start the same way, with no line and riders rolling along.

Here's a similarly popular segment in the middle of Spain I did earlier this year. I'm not on the first page (far from it) but Michael Kwiatkowski is down at number 24. Fairly certain that while he may have been going hard he wasn't racing and he'd likely beat most, if not all, of the 23 guys ahead of him if it was a race.

Strava Segment | Coll de Rates

Would you take that KOM over say - a BC championship?

I understand what you are asking but it really does boil down to over analyzing Strava and that can be a bad thing imo if you want real, usable data that is not purely of a hyper competitive nature