Comparison of Road Cycling communities
 

We read often enough about how some places are bike-crazy when it comes to commuting and getting about town generally, but what has anyone observed about the differences in road cycling communities from place to place?

Has anyone ridden extensively - with local groups, especially - in the US as well as Europe or some other country with a sizeable road riding communities, and have any observations on how they compare? Here's why I ask: Reading elsewhere about a sort of cycling training vacation in Spain brought to mind something I noticed about the riding I'd done in Italy and where it put me among what had been recorded by others on the same roads.

Here, I do about average overall - poorly on some segments, very well on others. But I noticed that even on rides where I felt we were riding as well as I ever do here, there my standings were consistently low - surprisingly low in many cases. But I also noticed that the number of riders recorded was relatively low, too. Perhaps that had to do with the fact that the nearest city of much size was about 80km away and the nearest "metropolis" (Milan) was more than 250km away.

Maybe only the most serious cyclists had occasion to ride those routes, whereas the routes I normally take are right next to the most populous city in the US? Maybe Italians (or at least Italian Freds) don't like Strava?

If you want to race, pin on a number and race. Everything else is just e-wang-measuring.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. Some Strava results mean a lot more than winning some races.

I shouldn't have posted. the word "segment" makes me throw up a little.

Sounds like you're the one with the problem. Not people who enjoy using Strava.

I'm not sure I followed all of that, but no, Strava is not as popular in Italy as it is in the USA.

I've never ridden in groups in Europe. All my group experience is here in the US. I find my first ride in groups where I don't know anybody or at least very well it doesn't go so well. It may be I'm worried about getting lost. It may be I'm trying to hard to hang in and not embarrass myself. Or perhaps it's just a bunch of things adding up to a big unknown. But after one ride, when I come back I do well. I seem to sense relief after the first is over and probably more relaxed after that.

Actually, I don't think [MENTION=6684]valygrl[/MENTION] has a problem. I think she might be trying to express something I've been feeling more and more myself lately- that it's not about the numbers, it's about what you can do on a bike. Not necessarily racing for everybody, but what you can do on a bike, how well you can do it, based on whatever it is that you want to do. Race, rando riding, just improving fitness, socializing with your friends, spending time on your bike.

Strava at its worst makes cycling about counting, quantifying, and comparing yourself to others. How many miles? How much elevation? What speed? Who does a segment fastest, given infinite tries over varying conditions? After all, what does it mean to get a KOM on a segment in a 40 mph tailwind that no one else had the benefit of when they rode the segment.

Add a power meter into the mix (which you know I won't even ride without, so it's not like I'm not a fan) and suddenly people start chasing watts and blathering on about their FTP or sprint power. When none of that matters as much as how well you perform. It's not about chasing numbers or worrying about anyone else, unless you're racing. And if you're racing, just race. What happens on Strava is irrelevant.

I think for me, the revelation comes from the fact that sometimes I can go out and ride a TT course faster on the same power. What does that mean? It means I'm getting better- better position on the bike, better aerodynamics, riding smarter, better adapted. And that's where I should be seeking success. Not from my placement on the Strava leader board or the numbers I see on my power meter.
[MENTION=6684]valygrl[/MENTION] is an incredibly nice person who 'gets' what cycling is about, in a similar way to how you get it and I get it. OP is an entry-level racer and I think all she was saying is race your races against appropriate competition and don't worry about the guys on Strava, because you have no way of knowing who they are or how appropriate it is for you to compare yourself to them.

Or the wind that day was favorable. ;)

Everyone rides and analyses their rides in their own way and if that doesn't take away from anyone else's ride then what they do shouldn't make anyone else want to throw up. Because it's none of their business.

Hey, it's Christmas. Stop being such a bunch of scrooges.

I got a KOM today (yeah, it was a bit windy too).

Besides, I don't think the OP's original question was really about Strava and where he places on it. It was more about what kind of riders are there in your area (at least that is what I think he was asking). Are they commuters, tourers, pro wannabes, old ex pros who can still smash everyone else etc etc? Strava being just a tool to see what other people who use Strava are doing.

Lol. Totally true.

+1

Except that it really does change it for everybody. You know that I am the first one who thinks everyone should just do their own thing on a bike. But there's something to be said for being part of a community of cyclists with a semi-shared core ethic. It helps what drivers think of us, what laws are passed, how other people ride during organized events, how solo cyclists comport themselves relative to each other & pedestrians.

Admire people who ride safely and sanely. Strive to be like cyclists to help the guy with a flat. Be happy for the cyclists who achieve something on a bike.

Truthfully, I don't care if you are one of those people whose goals are Strava-related. There is a Strava QOM that I'm actually trying to get, mostly because I love going full throttle on that particular stretch of road. But it you're not someone whose big focus is on Strava goals, don't sweat the Strava stuff because there's so many other ways to test your mettle besides Strava.

However, I'm still not going to wave at you mid-interval. Sorry. No. ;)

I've ridden with people all over the place ...

-- racers in Manitoba
-- cycletourists in Manitoba, Alberta, and the UK
-- long distance cyclists in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia, USA, France, and Australia.


The rides have been enjoyably different ... a chance to meet new people, enjoy new scenery, have some fun in a new place. :)


[HR][/HR]

One bit of advice I might offer some cyclists is this: do different rides in your local area.

I have read, in the past, of cyclists who ride the same route over and over and over ... every evening, every weekend, basically the same route. They might time themselves on it, and discover that they are increasing speed, and that's great. But I think that part of the speed increase is simply the process of becoming very familiar with the route so that they know when to shift, when to put on a burst of speed, when to relax a bit, etc.

And then ... they go out and ride the local century or something, and discover that it is a lot harder than they thought. They aren't as fast as they thought they were ... the terrain and conditions are more difficult than they imagined. Because it is an unfamiliar route and they aren't used to hills of a different steepness, or different wind patterns or different road surfaces or whatever.

Even just turning your route around and riding it in the opposite direction sometimes can make a difference. But take every chance you get to ride in different directions, on different roads, up different hills, in different conditions. Try out different types of cycling ... different types of bicycles. Ride different events. Sure you can specialise in something, but doing different things can expand your skill-set.

Well, thanks Heathpack, for the nice words, and putting nice words in my mouth :)

So here's what I took from the original post:
"Some places I ride, I am one of the fast people on Strava, and other places I'm one of the slow people. How come?"

The tl;dr version of my answer (as above) - you're using the wrong ruler to measure yourself, so don't bother.

My take on it is that use of strava doesn't necessarily represent either the general population of cyclists in an area or the people you might want to actually compare yourself to, and on top of that, it doesn't even really fairly represent competition in that one place, because conditions change.

Some places will have adopted the Strava culture more - more technology, more high speed internet, more access to and interest in tech tools like GPS/Garmin bike computers, more money to spend on those things. The self-selected population of people who use strava isn't going to be evenly distributed across the cycling population everywhere. It's not going to match the distribution of cyclists. Bay Area - everyone has a Garmin. Boulder - everyone has a Garmin and a power meter. Milan - I dunno. Middle of nowhere in rural Italy - I dunno. Majorca - everyone is a pro, and you are at the bottom of the leaderboard. Middle of nowhere in India - I have really no idea. Africa? Probably lots of KOMs out there for the taking.

Trying to compare yourself on strava is pretty pointless, as Heathpack pointed out, conditions vary, population adoption of strava varies, population adoption of cycling varies.

If you want to know how you rank (which is what I read as the most salient point of your question) - you have to go compete directly. On the same day. In the same race. Even the time recorded isn't really a good measuring stick - what about drafting? Wind? I barely every use Strava, but I have a QOM from a ride I did in Arizona when I had bronchitis and asthma and couldn't breath and could barely pedal. Does that mean I'm the fastest chick to ever ride that stretch? Hell no, other women on the trip I was on were leaving me in the dust, but they didn't post it on Strava.

So - pin on a number, or resign yourself to the fact that your ruler isn't calibrated and is therefore worthless.

[h=2]Comparison of Strava Cycling communities[/h]



FIFY

I don't use strava when I ride, but I have looked and there are quite a few segments near where I live, and there are always guys in spandex at the LBS when I drop by on weekends. They seem friendly enough to a guy who doesn't speak the same language. I've yet to be allowed time to go on a group yet though.

Strava isn't as popular in Italy as it is here in Holland or in the US, but it is growing. That being said, you're going to see a lot of foreigners in the segment results in Italy. That's mostly from people recording their rides while on vacation. You'll also see this in France as well. Nearly everyone I know here locally has at least one KOM in France. I have 7 in Italy myself. If you're riding in some far-off places well outside the major cities and vacation spots, you might only be seeing results from local pros and really hardcore riders, not sure. I rode up a small climb in Italy this past summer and when I looked at the leaderboard I noticed that many of the best times were set on the same day. Turns out it was the day that the Giro del Trentino passed through. There were only a few local guys.

As for the comparison of riding with local groups, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but there are groups of every size and skill level here, just like there are in the US. I would say though that people who take cycling vacations to the South are probably a bit more serious, but then again that varies as well.

I'm into cycling for the social and fitness aspects, and this is exactly why I've avoided Strava. I don't need any more superfluous data in my life.

It's funny how just the mention of Strava can get people off on the wrong foot.

Most of what you say I completely agree with. For instance, what you say about Boulder, Majorca, India, etc. gets at what I was wondering about, but I was hoping to get beyond the more or less obvious to a sense of how else road cycling communities may vary. Strava was just evidence of something, and I was wondering if anyone with experience had any sense of whether it was something more than just the degree of adoption of Strava, as @K.Katso suggests. On the one occasion when we rode with a large number of others - along the route ahead of one of the Giro stages - it seemed that most everyone was well-prepared, whereas on similar rides here in the states, there would have been many more riders who were obviously less well-prepared. Think of all the folks you see walking their bikes up the steepest hills on charity events. The only times I saw that there, it was other tourists. Why is that, I wonder? Maybe if it had been a charity event instead of something associated with the Giro, it would have been different, eh? But do they even have so many charity events in other places as we do in the states, or is road cycling elsewhere more or less "serious business?"

For some reason, you thought I was concerned about how I measured up - despite the title being "Comparison of road cycling Communities" By the way I have pinned a number on plenty of times, and I know I suck at racing. I don't need Strava to tell me that. :)

strava is huge here in central europe. i mean, its the leading global exercise platform. it would be as "foreign" in location XXX as facebook would be. i.e., not at all. [except china perhaps which has its own equivalents to major services]

anyway, being that spain has fantastic scenery, food, cycling environment, and near-year-round weather, and is also relatively cheap...tons of the local cyclists take cycling holidays there. (mallorca, specifically; canyon even has a bike rental operation there)

italy is also somewhat popular, as is romania and switzerland.

in the US i can only think of colorado as the one popular place for bicycling-tourism

If we are talking about speed then whatever.... http://forums.catholic.com/images/smilies/shrug.gif

In terms of sophistication however, riders in northern US cities and their suburbs are very sophisticated compared to their southern counterparts. The same holds true for motorists who generally know how to interact with cyclists. I'm talking about NYC, Boston, Philly and DC as compared to southern cities like Charlotte and Atlanta. Raleigh NC might be an exception.

Moving to the south was an eye opener. Riders here in the south generally lack an ability to interact with motorists other than staying out of motorist's way as much as possible. They will continue to use bike lanes that are dangerous, don't know the meaning of "Take the lane" and are afraid to ride on anything but back roads and country lanes at off peak hours. Northern cyclists and motorists seem much more used to interacting with each other on busier roads.



This is standard behavior in and around Atlanta. It's either the LBS Saturday ride or a group of guys get some jerseys printed up, ride the same Saturday morning loop week after week and call it a club. Any suggestion of anything other than a ride with two sprints and one KOM is a non-starter. Variety means riding their loop in the opposite direction. They wonder why people show up for a few weeks and then don't come back.

Hum, no. Star a will always be a limited substitute for actual racing.

First there are all the uncontrollable variables, such as wind on the day, group v solo, cherry picking short segments etc.

Second, a virtual txt, even if you could control all those variables can never substitute for head to head racing, which is so much more than how many w/kg you can put out for a given segment.

So have fun with Strava, if you enjoy it, but suggest that it's more important than actual race results is absurd imho.

Heck, I doubt that Strava results are even all that predictive of actual race outcomes.