Frame Material Hardnesses?
05-05-16 | 11:40 AM
#26
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05-05-16 | 12:42 PM
#27
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From: Denton, TX
Bikes: Trek Domane 5.9 DA 9000, Trek Crockett Pink Frosting w/105 5700
I have most of the frame materials, just recently carbon. No bamboo, no stainless, although I admire 953, partly because it doesn't need paint and is probably the most scratch and damage resistant of all the major frame materials. There are pictures on the steel or titanium thread of a 953 bike that is a jewel. Any frame material that excels at keeping its beauty and freshness and shine, and remains scratch free through the years and the decades gets my attention.
And before someone says that bikes and jewels are totally different, it's clear that many people like their bike frames in much the same way. Beauty matters to them, and scratches are not good points in their minds or perceptions.
I also have a beater that I like precisely because I can be free with it and lean it against all kinds of things, and feel little or no pain when it gets scratched....
And before someone says that bikes and jewels are totally different, it's clear that many people like their bike frames in much the same way. Beauty matters to them, and scratches are not good points in their minds or perceptions.
I also have a beater that I like precisely because I can be free with it and lean it against all kinds of things, and feel little or no pain when it gets scratched....
And neither my phone or my jewelry (ok, I don't actually wear any) is painted. And the phone lives in a case. I haven't seen many cases available for my Domane. If I'm worried about scratches on the bike, I try to avoid scratching it. It's as simple as that. This applies to my steel, carbon and aluminum frames.
05-05-16 | 01:48 PM
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Part of my attention to this point stems from a familiarity with resin jewelry, which is often made with two-part epoxies that are more or less the same epoxies used when laying up carbon frames.
Pendants made from it are considered low-end costume jewelry, largely because the material is so easy to scratch.
You would think high-end, high-cost carbon frames would give you better scratch protection or resistance. Scratches and gouges just don't sit well. And as someone else said, unexpected **** happens.
Pendants made from it are considered low-end costume jewelry, largely because the material is so easy to scratch.
You would think high-end, high-cost carbon frames would give you better scratch protection or resistance. Scratches and gouges just don't sit well. And as someone else said, unexpected **** happens.
Last edited by lightspree; 05-06-16 at 07:41 AM.
05-05-16 | 01:56 PM
#32
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05-05-16 | 02:20 PM
#34
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While I see your appreciation for the 953 frame option, you have to understand that most people have painted frames. The scratch resistance of a given material becomes irrelevant when covered in paint. I think you should rather frame your question in terms of paint. Which factories have paint that seems to hold up better than the next? What sort of paint should I look for to paint my frame? Is there a local paint shop that produces durable finishes for bicycles? Etc.
And neither my phone or my jewelry (ok, I don't actually wear any) is painted. And the phone lives in a case. I haven't seen many cases available for my Domane. If I'm worried about scratches on the bike, I try to avoid scratching it. It's as simple as that. This applies to my steel, carbon and aluminum frames.
And neither my phone or my jewelry (ok, I don't actually wear any) is painted. And the phone lives in a case. I haven't seen many cases available for my Domane. If I'm worried about scratches on the bike, I try to avoid scratching it. It's as simple as that. This applies to my steel, carbon and aluminum frames.
The question of durability in paints and clear coats is a very legitimate one.
In the same way, the durability and scratch resistance of unpainted materials is a legitimate one.
And comparisons of different materials, coated and uncoated, both within those two categories and between those two categories, are likewise perfectly reasonable and legitimate.
05-05-16 | 02:40 PM
#35
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Yeah. I went through a bit of a dilemma, do I want to pay extra for a sapphire lens on a GPS watch that will be outdated in a few years, or is mineral glass enough? I decided a scratch on the lens would bug the crap out of me and ponied up.
05-05-16 | 02:41 PM
#36
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I've learned a bit about engagement rings recently. Diamonds and sapphires are popular because, well, you wear them on your hand. And people use their hands to do stuff. You lean your bike against things, sometimes hang stuff off the bike, etc, but on the whole, your body probably takes more abuse day in and day out than your bike does.
05-05-16 | 02:54 PM
#37
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I have a carbon frame that I am considering selling, largely over this issue. I can't stand the look of scratched up carbon. Scratches happen for many people, even careful ones. Some people might get defensive about carbon. I don't. I'd like to find a scratch resistant coating, though. Maybe there is something. They're made for some other items....
I got a white tungsten ring (with hardness=sapphire) that a jeweler thought was white gold at first, until she went to polish it and noticed there weren't any scratches.... I love things that hold up like that.
05-05-16 | 03:05 PM
#39
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I've learned a bit about engagement rings recently. Diamonds and sapphires are popular because, well, you wear them on your hand. And people use their hands to do stuff. You lean your bike against things, sometimes hang stuff off the bike, etc, but on the whole, your body probably takes more abuse day in and day out than your bike does.
With carbon, it's not just the appearance of scratches and wear (though there is that too) -- it's a safety concern as well, at least for me. Some people don't seem to care, others do.
I don't like having to be so careful with it. Maybe that will change, idk.
05-05-16 | 03:06 PM
#40
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I think Beth mentioned tunsten as acceptable but I think she'd prefer platinum (or palladium?).
I don't know the name of the material but I think there's some type of coating (some kind of film?) that a lot of cyclocross people put on their downtubes to protect them from chips from gravel kicked up by the front wheel.
I don't know the name of the material but I think there's some type of coating (some kind of film?) that a lot of cyclocross people put on their downtubes to protect them from chips from gravel kicked up by the front wheel.
05-05-16 | 03:07 PM
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05-05-16 | 03:09 PM
#42
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I think Beth mentioned tunsten as acceptable but I think she'd prefer platinum (or palladium?).
I don't know the name of the material but I think there's some type of coating (some kind of film?) that a lot of cyclocross people put on their downtubes to protect them from chips from gravel kicked up by the front wheel.
I don't know the name of the material but I think there's some type of coating (some kind of film?) that a lot of cyclocross people put on their downtubes to protect them from chips from gravel kicked up by the front wheel.
05-05-16 | 06:23 PM
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05-05-16 | 06:47 PM
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Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
05-06-16 | 06:38 AM
#45
blah blah blah
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Ehhhh, much ado about nothing IMHO. All my bikes of steel, aluminum, or carbon have blemishes or scratches from real world riding. The one I crashed the hardest is carbon with carbon handlebars, and the day I crashed, it was 10 miles into a hundred mile ride that I ended up finishing regardless.
05-06-16 | 07:23 AM
#46
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As far as scratches and dings (nicks, divets, gouges, etc.) go, it's the same -- some think it's nothing, others do not. Those with true expertise do not think that the deeper scratches, etc. are necessarily nothing to be concerned about, especially for carbon structures that are shaving weight to achieve extreme lightness.
As far as aesthetics go, some people are fine with banged up cars, others perfectionistically detail out every small ding, scratch or imperfection. Who's right, who's better? Idk. I can see both sides, and for me it depends on the car, truck, motorcycle, bike or other item in question.
Last edited by lightspree; 05-06-16 at 07:38 AM.
05-06-16 | 07:33 AM
#47
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Returning to the topic for a bit, it looks like titanium usually has a Mohs hardness of about 6. On the Rockwell C scale, it looks like it is usually in the range of 30-36.
Dried epoxy is somewhere between golf balls and bone.
I have heard that 953 is about 44 on the Rockwell C scale, but haven't yet confirmed it.
Some seem to like the position that hardness doesn't matter. Others think it does matter.
Dried epoxy is somewhere between golf balls and bone.
I have heard that 953 is about 44 on the Rockwell C scale, but haven't yet confirmed it.
Some seem to like the position that hardness doesn't matter. Others think it does matter.
05-06-16 | 04:23 PM
#49
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From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Below are pages 1 and 6 of the data sheet.
