Di2 & Shimano Failures - CAUTION
07-08-17, 05:09 PM
#76
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Berkeley & Lake Tahoe
Posts: 10
Bikes: Seven Axiom SL, Seven Axiom S, Santa Cruz 5010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Second instance of failure
I had a very similar experience to the first failure (see original post) - total failure, and recovery after about 15 minutes of riding. As with the first failure, the bike had been parked in direct sunlight in moderately hot weather. I'm wondering however how I could be the only one to experience hot battery failure, especially since I'm riding in the SF Bay Area which isn't all that hot.
07-09-17, 06:38 PM
#77
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,304
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
I didn't make any point about the complexity or lack thereof of Di2. My point was that if it does cease to work, there's no reason you can't still get home. Pick a gear, make the bike a single speed, and ride home. It's the same as breaking a derailleur cable, or a malfunctioning brifter. Only consequence is you're limited to one gear, but no reason you cant get home riding the bike.
I've yet to have a mechanical breakdown. if I did, I'm fairly confident I could fix it, if not permanently then at least well enough to get home. I just don't see how DI2 is worth the extra cash unless you have it burning a hole in your pocket. I don't begrudge people their choices, but maintaining a mechanical shifting/derailleur system is easy.
I've had cable based shifting fail, from broken cables, trashed derailleurs, and worn out brifters.
I've also had Di2 stop shifting ( I don't say fail because it was my failure to recharge).
In all those cases, I got home without an issue.
Carry a mini tool, and a chain tool, and you can get home, without even having a derailleur.
IMHO, reliability, and the ability to get home is really a non-issue.
And with time, we may find that the rate of mechanical failure from brifters, and cables, may well exceed the failure from electric connection and circuits from electric shifting
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
07-09-17, 08:43 PM
#78
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,550
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times
in
145 Posts
07-10-17, 09:05 AM
#81
Senior Member
09-02-17, 02:59 PM
#82
Newbie
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Last year, I purchased a Seven bike outfitted with the Ultegra 6870 Di2 kit. I've been riding and loving it since October, until a ride in May when the system failed. On the top of a mountain pass, I paused 15 minutes for lunch. When I returned to the bike, the Di2 was unresponsive - no shifting front or rear, and no LEDs when I pressed both buttons. Absolutely dead. I decided to coast down and call for help - when about 5 min later, I pressed a button, and the Di2 resumed full functionality for another 50km (with no indication of a low charge), and for the next 8 weeks. The second failure occurred after a bounce in the road - this time I had the Shimano connection tool with me, and I removed and reset all connections. Still dead. I called Uber for a $60 ride home; once home, the Di2 again "repaired itself". There was no indication of a low battery. After every ride, I check the charge - I have never seen the flashing green or red lights, indicating less than 50%(?) charge.
Last week, I returned the bike to the bike shop in SF where I purchased it.
After a week, I was told that the sophisticated Shimano test equipment determined that there is nothing wrong with the Di2, even though the unit died in the shop. The analysis is that my problem is due to a dead battery (and unstated, a dumb customer that is not capable of making a rational observation, not to mention keeping the battery charged).
This is an unsafe situation, and an unacceptable response. In my experience, there is no such thing as failure proof electronics. Software? - hopefully debugged by now; faulty component that fails intermittently or when jarred? Sending me home with the same equipment is asking for trouble - losing the ability to pedal at the wrong moment could be catastrophic.
Anyone have a similar experience? I can find nothing on the internet. Any suggestions?
And while I'm complaining, Shimano also needs to provide a useful user manual, explaining at the very least, the meaning of the LEDs, the low battery failure mode, operation of the E-Tube project, etc.
Last week, I returned the bike to the bike shop in SF where I purchased it.
After a week, I was told that the sophisticated Shimano test equipment determined that there is nothing wrong with the Di2, even though the unit died in the shop. The analysis is that my problem is due to a dead battery (and unstated, a dumb customer that is not capable of making a rational observation, not to mention keeping the battery charged).
This is an unsafe situation, and an unacceptable response. In my experience, there is no such thing as failure proof electronics. Software? - hopefully debugged by now; faulty component that fails intermittently or when jarred? Sending me home with the same equipment is asking for trouble - losing the ability to pedal at the wrong moment could be catastrophic.
Anyone have a similar experience? I can find nothing on the internet. Any suggestions?
And while I'm complaining, Shimano also needs to provide a useful user manual, explaining at the very least, the meaning of the LEDs, the low battery failure mode, operation of the E-Tube project, etc.
09-02-17, 05:06 PM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: South Coast of Western Australia
Posts: 254
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Maybe I will buy into the electronic shifting fad one day. First I will have to figure out what problem it's supposed to fix.
09-02-17, 08:13 PM
#84
Senior Member
I have always been a fan of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). But with companies run by marketing types who think sales are driven more by form than function, things become overly complicated.
The Di2 system is well made, and reliable, but is not as inherently reliable as a simple, mechanical system. Nearly any failure in a mechanically-shifted gear train can be mitigated with a pocket tool. If a cable or shifter breaks, I can rig the bike to work in the gear of my choice.
The Di2 system is a marketing solution to a problem which doesn't exist. But the purpose of marketing is to sell us things we don't need.
The Di2 system is well made, and reliable, but is not as inherently reliable as a simple, mechanical system. Nearly any failure in a mechanically-shifted gear train can be mitigated with a pocket tool. If a cable or shifter breaks, I can rig the bike to work in the gear of my choice.
The Di2 system is a marketing solution to a problem which doesn't exist. But the purpose of marketing is to sell us things we don't need.
09-02-17, 10:51 PM
#85
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,668
Bikes: 2023 Canyon Aeoroad CF SL, 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 647 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times
in
89 Posts
I love my Di2. It's great, no complaints here.
09-02-17, 11:04 PM
#86
Occam's Rotor
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,248
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2366 Post(s)
Liked 2,331 Times
in
1,164 Posts
09-03-17, 05:03 AM
#87
Senior Member
I just came back from a ride on PCH here in Southern California, hit a routed shoulder track "hole" in the road and my Dura Ace Di2 stopped working altogether. Fortunately I didn't need an Uber and my wife came down the road 20 miles to get me but what a joke. A bump in the road and the system shuts down? I have no functionality in either shifters. No green light (or any other light for that matter at the junction box) and yet when I got home the battery is essentially charged. To make matters worse the e-tube diagnostic isn't supported on an IOS device or a Mac. So for a multi-thousand dollar premium I have to be worried about inadvertent irregularities in the road lest my system crap out on me? I'm about 1,500 miles in on the Di2 and I miss mechanical already.
I'd like to know what ended up being wrong with your di2, crash protection mode from an impact like hitting a big "hole"?
In the three years I've been riding with di2, there's been two instances where my di2 failed and both were my fault. Once I re-wrapped my bars too tight and unknowingly unplugged one of the shifters. The second time I washed my bike with the battery removed and water got into the cradle causing a bad connection. Both easy fixes and a bonehead moves on my part. Those experiences frustrated me until I realized it was my fault and also made me pay more attention to what I'm doing when working on the bike.
Last edited by dvdslw; 09-03-17 at 05:11 AM.
09-03-17, 05:06 AM
#88
Senior Member
Just in case it did go into crash protection mode, here's a little info on the subject.
Without being able to see the bike I can only assume that the derailleur has gone into crash or protection mode. This is a feature that not to many Di2 users are familiar with and even if they’ve heard about it, aren’t really sure what it does. When the derailleur is impacted hard enough, the motor in the rear derailleur will disengage from the cage and prevent the system from shifting. This is a safeguard to protect the derailleur from further damage in a crash. If you find yourself in a situation where this has happened, don’t panic, there’s an easy fix. You simply need to put the system into crash recovery mode and reset the rear derailleur.
First, make sure your derailleur hanger isn’t damaged, because if it is bent badly, the derailleur may over shift into the spokes on your rear wheel, which may create even more problems. Enter crash recovery mode by holding down the button on your junction box for 5 or more seconds until you see the red light start to flash. Make sure you are simultaneously spinning the cranks, because once the recovery mode is activated the derailleur should shift itself through all the gears on the rear cassette. The derailleur will cycle through all the gears and re-connect the motor to the cage to restore shifting capabilities.
There is nothing you have to do to get the system out of crash or protection mode. Once the derailleur stops moving it automatically takes itself out of that mode and goes back to normal. Finally, be sure to realign the rear derailleur hanger back to normal if necessary.
Without being able to see the bike I can only assume that the derailleur has gone into crash or protection mode. This is a feature that not to many Di2 users are familiar with and even if they’ve heard about it, aren’t really sure what it does. When the derailleur is impacted hard enough, the motor in the rear derailleur will disengage from the cage and prevent the system from shifting. This is a safeguard to protect the derailleur from further damage in a crash. If you find yourself in a situation where this has happened, don’t panic, there’s an easy fix. You simply need to put the system into crash recovery mode and reset the rear derailleur.
First, make sure your derailleur hanger isn’t damaged, because if it is bent badly, the derailleur may over shift into the spokes on your rear wheel, which may create even more problems. Enter crash recovery mode by holding down the button on your junction box for 5 or more seconds until you see the red light start to flash. Make sure you are simultaneously spinning the cranks, because once the recovery mode is activated the derailleur should shift itself through all the gears on the rear cassette. The derailleur will cycle through all the gears and re-connect the motor to the cage to restore shifting capabilities.
There is nothing you have to do to get the system out of crash or protection mode. Once the derailleur stops moving it automatically takes itself out of that mode and goes back to normal. Finally, be sure to realign the rear derailleur hanger back to normal if necessary.
Last edited by dvdslw; 09-03-17 at 05:10 AM.
09-03-17, 05:41 AM
#89
don't try this at home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,940
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 974 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times
in
352 Posts
You likely have the SM-BCR2 charger, which works with e-tube if you plug it into your computer. (There's a model number on the back of the charger.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For pulling or installing the Di2 cable plugs, you should have the small plastic Di2 tool. The plugs need to kind of click into place. (My LBS included one when I bought my bike.)
Last edited by rm -rf; 09-03-17 at 05:48 AM.
09-03-17, 09:07 AM
#90
Senior Member
I've wanted to upgrade the mechanical Record to Record EPS for a while. I had a chance to convince my wife this month with all the sales in the UK, but couldn't do it. It was stupid to spend that kind of money for a new EPS FD, RD, shifters, battery, console, etc. Instead, I upgraded my Record mechanical to the post 2015 mechanical.
Functionally, I think EPS is the best of the three. But I'm not sure I would own the group if I had to pay for it.
