dvdslw

Good morning all, I was inspired to ask a few questions to the 41 after reading a thread started today about weight lifting. For background, I'm a mid 40's male, 6'5, 225lbs, and consider myself to be in decent shape for my age compared to just about every other guy I know or see in my age group thanks in part to cycling and watching what I eat. At this point in my life I'm beginning to feel what I believe to be the decline of my muscle mass, energy levels, and other age related declines of a man my age so back in November I decided to start weight lifting to see if that would help get me back to feeling normal again.

I went out and bought a complete home gym system plus free weights to begin a weight lifting program and stuck to it for 4 solid months doing a high weight/low rep routine with little to no improvements in strength or size. I was on a high protein low fat diet, took the full array of supplements, vitamins, and protein shakes timed as recommended by a nutritionist but all I ended up with was sore muscles and a hard time sleeping because of them. So what gives? I remember as a young man working out with some friends and it seemed we could just eat pizza, half ass work out for a while and see results almost immediately. What's changed?

I started doing some online research and came to the conclusion that my testosterone levels may be low and made an appointment to see my physician with special instructions to get a full blood panel to see what my levels were. Come to find out I'm normal for my age group so no worries but I still wanted some answers and kept digging which led me to research local Bioidentical Hormone Doctors and see what they have to offer. That opened up a new door to re-evaluate what is considered a normal testosterone level for a particular age group and my "normal" is half that of a 20 year old male and the bottom of normal for an 80 year old male so according to them I'm low and replacement therapy is a viable option for me but there's trade offs with doing it.

So it seems Testosterone replacement is a magic shot that will make me feel younger, increase my muscle mass, increase my libido, strengthen my bones, the extra weight around my mid section will just melt away, so why not go out today and get started? The main reason to consider NOT doing it is once you start replacing testosterone by way of injections, creme's, or the patch, your body will see that as a reason to stop producing it naturally and once it stops producing the hormone it doesn't start back up again. So anyone opting for replacement should be prepared to take it for the rest of their life. It's quite costly especially without insurance so I just can't see beginning such a treatment plan unless my levels were completely gone. That leaves me wanting more for myself although reluctant to do anything about it.

Here's the kicker, endurance athletes like runners, swimmers, and cyclists tend to have lower T levels because the strain of the endurance activity actually depletes it plus for males turns some of the testosterone into estrogen that creates a whole different array of side effects like man boobs. So logging some long miles on the bike every week is counterproductive to anyone looking to bulk up in the gym or even keep what muscle size they have now and could lead to weaker bones earlier in life than those who don't partake in such activities. Those looking to size up should keep their rides short and hard.

Anyway, this is what's on my mind this morning and was hoping to hear from anyone else who may have come to the same or different conclusions. At the end of the day, I'm hoping to improve my quality of life from here on out and keep up with my two young boys (9 and 12) who keep me busy. My doctor says I'm normal so I guess I'll just make due with what I've got for now. I know this might be a sensitive topic for some but would appreciate anyone sharing their experiences if any on this topic.

gregf83 

It's part of aging. I've never heard of T-therapy being good for your prostate. The first thing they do when you're diagnosed with prostate cancer is to reduce your testosterone to zero to slow the growth of cancer.

dvdslw

After re-reading my post, I realize I had it wrong about the prostate and will fix the post. There appears to be a debate as to Testosterone replacement therapy and how it affects the prostate. Some say it does nothing while others believe it speeds up the growth of cancer in the prostate if you already have it.

therhodeo

I'm shocked that you felt terrible. Utterly shocked.

redfooj

"research local Bioidentical Hormone Doctors and see what they have to offer. That opened up a new door to re-evaluate what is considered a normal testosterone level for a particular age group and my "normal" is half that of a 20 year old male and the bottom of normal for an 80 year old male so according to them I'm low and replacement therapy is a viable option "


smells suspicious

dvdslw

I know, right! All I meant was the fact that I ate what you're supposed to eat while building muscle mass, high protien foods like chicken, beans, and a bunch of green veggies and salads. I stayed away from fried foods, desserts, sweets, etc...

therhodeo

Low fat diets have been shown in research to lower T levels. I was being sarcastic. Its pretty well accepted at this point that low fat diets don't work.

PepeM

Buy a muscle car. Or a Harley. Or a Pinarello

dvdslw

So riding a bike and not eating steak is turning me into a girl?

therhodeo

I would bet you're not doing the riding necessary to kill your T levels.

grolby

So you're saying that these people have a system for evaluating T levels that just happens to vastly expand the pool of candidates for androgenic hormone replacement therapy? Sounds legit.

10 Wheels

Food fat = energy.

gregf83 

My understanding is it doesn't increase your chances of getting prostate cancer (which are very high in any case) but it makes the cancer grow faster if you have it, hence the chemical castration once you're diagnosed.

cave12man

I'm 34, so a couple years behind you, but I'm not 100% sure replacement therapy would be the way to go. That seems, a bit extreme. There are however, Testosterone pills that you can buy at GNC and the like if you're really leaning toward that direction. From what I've heard, the jury's still out on how effective they are, but I have heard good results. Personally that stuff kind of skeeves me out. I'd rather stick with a good diet and training plan before I really considered anything to that extent.

To mirror therhodeo, a low fat diet really isn't what you should be aiming for. You need that fat if you're going to be lifting and training so much. Not a huge amount of course, but super low fat diets will kill your energy levels. You also have to eat, ALOT. Fire up myfitnesspal and see what it recomends as a starting point for your age and weight in terms of caloric needs.

This guy runs a great site and proved invaluable when I started lifting heavy. acaloriecounter.com I saw great results when using the plan he outlines. Obviously a start, and should be tailored to your needs, but at least it's somewhere to "start".

Another option, even though I know you've already bought your weights, is to try out P90x. I was HUGE into that for a while and used it to train for the bike and other things like ToughMudders and Spartan Runs. Also saw awesome gains while climbing.

I'm by no means an expert, but just thought I'd offer some food for thought.

therhodeo

Don't go buying some ridiculous cure from GNC. Even the legitimate products they sell can be had elsewhere cheaper and miracle T enhancing pills don't fall under "legitimate".

Eat healthy with good fats, get enough sleep, reduce stress, limit alcohol, and take cold showers.

redfooj

are you mad, man?

Samuraidog

As others have suggested, it is just part of the aging process. Embrace it.

I've seen others go the route of testosterone replacement therapy, and I'm not impressed. Sure, they make you feel great again for the moment, but it is just a short-term fix. One guy I know that was doing it believes it is what caused his prostrate cancer (even though there is no way to tell for sure). Another guy is having other health issues related to his brain, but again, no way to tell for sure if the T-therapy is what caused it.

For me, I prefer to stay far away from testosterone therapy because I don't think that we (as a society) yet know for sure what the long term effects of using it are. You'll never again be at the levels you were at age 20, but there are some things you can do to boost your T levels naturally. Google it. If I remember right, it is things like heavy lifting, short sprints, more sex, etc.

Ajkollme

I'm guessing you just weren't eating enough calories. If you are 6'5'' 225 and lifting and cycling, you are going to need to eat a LOT of calories in order to put on muscle mass. How many calories were you eating daily, and how often were you working out?

MCODave

I'm about your age and have been lifting in addition to cycling and running for about 2 1/2 years now. Just accept that at our age you aren't going to see gains as easily or quickly as when we were younger. Nor will you see the same gains as someone the same age who has been working out consistently since they were younger.

But even in your 40's you can and will see gains. I would suggest that you up your protein intake, some say to strive for 1g per pound of body weight daily. Then just be patient, consistent work is what will get you there, not shortcuts.

Finally, note that in today's society most of what is perceived as being muscular is the result of being really, really (and I mean REALLY) lean. In that respect cycling can help, although as some have mentioned 6-hour rides and the like may be counterproductive. I try to keep my rides and runs short and intense, as that will help lean you out without taking away from your muscle mass.

seypat

The original post sounds just like all of the T-Therapy commercials that are airing in my area. You can't cheat Father Time, just accept it. One of the funnier things I have read about Low T goes something like this:

Guy is at his doctor complaining about this and that. He starts to inquire about T-Therapy. The doctor asks him, "When a young attractive woman walks by do you look at her? Do you think about her and imagine what you could do with her behind closed doors?" The guy says, "All the time, it's hard not to notice and dream about it!" Doctor says, "You haven't got a low T problem, so quit asking me about it."

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm 71 and for sure have lower T than when I was 20. My WAG is that it's supposed to be that way and you'll live longer if you leave it alone. As long as you can perform in bed like you used to though maybe not as often, your T levels are fine. Heavy weight training is supposed to increase T.

Try cutting the weights down to no more than 1 hour twice a week. That should solve the soreness issue and is all a cyclist who is not a pro sprinter needs.

Try getting your weight down to 200. That'll have you feeling young again right there. When you lift, once a week rep to failure and the other day a little lighter.

rpenmanparker 

At age 68 I have been injecting T for about 2 years. My levels are now in the normal range at round 900 whatevers. Probably since my unsupplemented levels were borderline, it only takes about 0.5 ml every two weeks to get my current results. That is a very low supplement level.

I have seen improvement in my bone density which is very important to me.

I do not either recommend nor not recommend the T therapy. I just believe that allowing yourself to acquire "age-appropriate" conditions because that is the natural way is stupid. Dying is also the natural way, and nothing is stupider than that...most of the time. If you can do something about it, do it.

Don't make the mistake of thinking T therapy is all about libido like so folks here have suggested. That is the least of it. The bone maintenance is extremely important as is the muscle mass maintenance. If you lose too much muscle mass, weight maintenance will become extremely difficult even for someone who watches what they eat. Trust me, I know.

As regards the question of whether you T is really low or not, why not decide for yourself? You have the lab results, right? At least you should. Every result on a body chemistry report comes with a "normal" range. Also a lot of T normality information is available online. You are perfectly capable of deciding whether T therapy would benefit you. Many GPs, internists, and urologists will not object to a reasoned argument from the patient for T therapy and will prescribe. Take this into your own hands.

As for the cost and the need for permanent therapy. Once you are low, you are low and it ain't gonna get better on its own. So the notion of permanent therapy is not so scary. I mean if you need it anyway, what difference does it make. And I haven't found the need to increase my dosage to account for the body shutting down T production since I started injecting, so that may all be ca-ca.

Regarding cost, some insurance will cover it if you can demonstrate a real need. Your best bet for that is to see a urologist. They are the most likely docs to get you a paid prescription for T.

Also as regards cost, if you are not needle-shy, you are in luck. The injections are much cheaper than the gels. I get no help paying for mine except the insurance group pharmacy rate and pay about $113 for 10 ml. At my dosage that lasts me about 5 months. But even at twice that dosage, it is not too onerous.

Good luck.

beermode

I lifted weights since I was 21, and I am 38 now. I had a few times where I fell out of it for a few weeks or months, but was pretty good when i got back into it.
For the past few years, I didn't let it up for more than a few weeks. Sometimes I would skip a week, but was more or less consistent.
Last year, I wanted to nip that in the bud. My energy levels were bad, I was sore instead of invincible on the weekends, etc.
What I learned:
-Don't skip a week if your last round was good.
-If your last round of lifting wasn't good, give yourself an extra day or two to recover.
-Sleep at routine times, don't deny a nap once in a while.
-Balance your food. I am moderate on my fat and carbs. No more no fat or no carb diets.
-Switch up your lifting exercise. Try something you haven't tried before or revisit one. Just ease into it.
-Don't over do it. That whole train until you fail or puke, or the whole break you before you are built thing is way past us. You can slowly get there. Just make sure your HR rate is in the right rhythm, don't go too easy.
-Find an excuse to blast around the block or climb a hill on non-ride days. Just go for twenty minutes instead of the dreaded treadmill. Or swim if you have access to the beach or water.

mcours2006

Four and a half months isn't enough time, especially if you are not consistent with you lifting program. A diet higher in fat will help. It also helps with the absorption of protein.

you could try cutting down on mileage and see if makes a difference. You may be feeling tired just because you're riding too much.

dvdslw

A lot of good replies to my post and I appreciate it. I would have to agree with the majority and say I'm just getting older and deal with it. To answer a few questions, when I was working out, I shot for a target of 5,000 calories per day which included three full meals, two in between snacks like Greek yogurt, almonds, or bar with a high protein content, plus a morning pre workout weight gain shake and a pre bed time casein powder shake to aid recovery while I sleep.. I seemed to only gain weight in the mid section.

I plan to give it another go and without the hormone therapy for now, my T level was 491ng/dL by the way which is right in the middle of (250-900ng/dL) which is what the medical community calls normal and the average is 679ng/dL. It's also advised to have the level checked a few different times and at different times of the day to get a better average so I guess at this point I'm not exactly sure what my true average is. Maybe when I'm a bit older I'll re-evaluate my thinking but for now I should just play it safe and move on. I'm not one to believe all the claims of the wonder supplements or t-boosters so I'll stay away from them but I did read several studies where vitamin 3d in high doses raises testosterone levels so I am taking 5,000iu every day along with omega-3's. May be useless but its cheap and I don't see any harm in it either so I'll continue.

My thought now is to maybe find a personal trainer or join some type of program like CrossFit or something to help stay focused on my goals. I'm not after the Arnold physique, just want to be in above average shape and don't mind putting in the work to get it done.