Maelochs

I too find group rides stressful. I have ridden twice and hard and fast in group rides than I ever dreamed possible---just amazing---but I also felt like I could live without the stress. I understand the appeal ... I might even try again someday if I get back in something like shape (other than the shape of a jellyfish) but ... by and large I ride to escape stress, not immerse myself in it.

Say, how is the ride back from the brewery. I bet you all give each other lots of room.

hsuehhwa

+1


Before ~2012 "Cycling has become the new golf", in a good way.


Now, in a somewhat negative way.

sevenmag

That certainly is not my view of cycling. I ride solo every single ride unless I go do an organized/charity type ride, and because I always ride solo I know I have bad habits so I tend to stay away from the groups. But that's a post for a different thread

I started riding because I like food and adult malted beverages, and felt like it would keep me from getting any fatter. As luck would have it, I just enjoy getting out on the road and disappearing for a while. I've always been involved in sports of some sort. I was a professional water skier in my younger days, then I competed as a power lifter, and in spearfishing. I traded all that in for a family and the "dad bod". After my son reached the age that my active participation in his endeavors was no longer needed, I got a bike.

I certainly don't need all the best and newest gear, but I do strongly feel that you should love the look of your bike. If you like the way it looks, you'll want to ride it. It's pretty simple. I don't ride so I can neurose over data, numbers, and what new gadget will make me quicker or just make me look faster. I ride because I like it, and I'd rather spend time on the bike so I can have an extra porter this weekend instead of one less.

bbbean 

[QUOTE=cthenn;19508537]https://www.theguardian.com/environm...rld-of-cycling

"...So pervasive is this trend that it seems to be sucking the life out of other parts of cycling. It’s hard to find the hippies and the explorers any more. It’s all about the competition and the conformity.
"

Since when do hippies and explorers need me to ride like them for them to enjoy riding the way they want? This argument is akin to arguing that since so many people enjoy sauteeing vegetables these days, it's hard to make a salad.

Road cycling and racing is popular. That's great for those of us who love to race and hammer down the highway. But surely my daily speedfest isn't stopping anyone who wants to strap on panniers and go cross country or ride their steel beast to the organic coffee shop any more than those guys stop me from riding the way I like.

Sheesh...

Maelochs

[QUOTE=bbbean;19517394] The hippies and explorers don't Want you to find them ... unless you are one of them in which case you just found yourself.

caloso

I am one of these riders who goes on group rides because it's fun. I try to not take myself too seriously, but there are aspects of the ride I take very seriously. We call out car back and car up; we call out debris in the road; we try to be smooth in our rotation; try to avoid leaving gaps and half-wheeling; we try to keep our hands on the bars and brakes covered unless we're off the front or off the back. Why? Because even though it is fun to go fast, things can go wrong very quickly at 30mph and people can get seriously injured or even killed if people do stupid, dangerous stuff.

HTupolev

Roadies wear lycra because they find it comfy and fast.
Roadies wear cycling shoes because they find them comfy, and they make foot contact more confident.
Roadies slurp "sugar" packets to avoid bonking.
Hand signals are for safety and comfort. They help avoid surprise (and thus prevent crashes) when people do things, and they help people in the group avoid harmful stuff in the road.

All of these things, roadies ultimately do to improve their fun.

Abe_Froman

Heh, in all honesty, most of the problem is me. I feel caught in a bit of a no mans land when it comes to group cycling.

Not fast enough/well equipped enough for serious road rides. At least not the faster ones anyway.

Fun/social organized rides I've gone on have been a waste of time for me from an exercise/physical improvement standpoint. They were generally slower even than my commuting speeds to work.

It just seems like there is a MASSIVE gulf between social rides and road rides, with zero in the middle.

Maelochs

Yup. The slow people are fine with slow rides, the fast people are always pushing to go faster. The people who are starting out and want just a little challenge find that most people have already been through that and gone beyond ... or couldn't find a group ride for semi-beginners.

Semi-beginners don't want to organize rides ... how do you do it? How do you reach people ? How do you decide on a solid average pace, and what if it doesn't work for the people who show up? You either waste a day going slowly---or get dropped on your own ride.

Also ... if the people are not experienced at group riding, they don't know not to overlap wheels, they forget to watch ALL the time, they don't call out obstacles, they slider back and speed up ... and when the inevitable multi-bike collision occurs, everyone says "Screw this" and never comes back.

In my limited experience, group rides are either relaxing fun (not necessarily fun cycling) or intense but not really fun.

I need a group of clones.

grolby

Cycling has grown significantly in popularity in the UK. When things get more popular, more kinds of people are going to do them. Including people you don't like so much. That's the price of going mainstream. I do think there are probably a lot of soccer fans who would be quite offended by the author's description of "dull men discussing football." It really gives the game away - okay, you don't like sports, and you're ready to throw anyone with any interest in sports under the bus as dull and unpleasant. That's fine and all, lots of sports fans ARE dull and unpleasant. But all sorts of people are dull and unpleasant and some of them share the same hobbies as you.

From my perspective, I got into cycling first on the adventurous side of things, and absorbed the usual set of stereotypes about roadies - they're jocks, they're boring, they're elitist, etc etc. I figured it wasn't for me. Because I'm a competitive person by nature and because I was in bike circles, I both got to know some roadies and to start taking an interest in competitive cycling myself. Eventually I gave in and took up bike racing, and learned that cycling is made of a diversity of people, just like anything else. It's still a niche activity here. Even in road cycling, there are plenty of weirdos to hang out with - heck, ESPECIALLY in road cycling and racing, which are as already noted not a thing that normal people do, as a rule. As a weirdo nerd myself, all I had to do was find my little island of my special people and live happily ever after. And that's what I've done. My cycling friends are fun, don't take themselves too seriously and are generally amazing people who I'm proud to be associated with. As for the jerks, I don't hang out with them and so the problem really takes care of itself.

And I find riding, racing and hanging out with my real-life, spandex-wearing, Strava-using, watts-obsessed weirdo bike friends way more fulfilling than reading the complaints of cranky sandal-wearing old men with touring bikes on the internet.

merlinextraligh

I'd argue that Cycling is disversifying from the stereotype posed in the original article.

The Guardian article captures one element in cycling.

But a lot of other stuff is going on as well. The whole Gravel racing phenomena appears to be at least in part a reaction to some of the elements the Guardian author is railing against.

Cyclo-cross and its different culture is becoming a bigger thing also, some racing intensely competitive, and some looking for another venue to drink PBR

Then you've got hippies on fixed gears, and mountain bikers from competitive racers to stoners,

Tourists, commuters, triathletes, no car greenies, etc, etc.

There seems to be enough room in cycling to find your niche.

DomaneS5

You've described the exact reasons why I don't go on group rides. I, too, am caught in the middle. Not fast enough for seasoned cyclists who average 20-22mph, but way too fast for leisure riders.

caloso

Not to mention that many of us have multiple and diverse cycling personalities. I race, I commute, I enjoy CX but don't take it very seriously. I enjoy a leisurely ride to the gelato shop with my wife as much as I enjoy the Saturday morning hammerfest. Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

Abe_Froman

Move to Chicago and we can start a ~18-20mph 35mi ride with a mid ride brewery pit stop every weekend

grolby

This gets at the core of my frustration with this topic every single time it comes up. People talk on the internet as though people only ever do one kind of cycling. Whereas the bike people I know in real life do all kinds of different rides, because they love bikes and riding bikes. People like the author of this article see a person in a single context, wearing their spandex and hammering while talking about pro cycling and assume they know who that person is. But they don't.

merlinextraligh

You're not finding the right rides. In most decent sized communities you'll find group rides all the way from absolute hammer fests to purely social, with numerous gradations in between.

Here for example the local club has A, B, C, S rides.

S is purely social no drop.

C is appropriate for riders new to groups, and/or people that aren't terribly fit or just don't want to go real fast.

B is appropriate for generally fit recreational cyclists

A is appropriate for very fit recreational cyclists.

Then there's a whole nother level of rides by the local racing group.

The Racing club's B rides are very fast, but cooperative, and are appropriate for strong riders, who might find the Recreational Club's A rides too slow.

The Racing club's A rides are essentially training races and if they aren't fast enough for you, consider a Pro License.

Thus, its pretty easy to find a ride that is literally your speed.

indyfabz

The Philly bike club actually has a decent amount of middle rides to go with the truly social rides. In fact, if it's lighter on anything than in the past it's the faster, more challenging rides. I think this is due to the aging population of the club combined with the fact that some of those aging member have been ride leaders for a very long time and still enjoy leading rides. I have been on two Sunday C rides recently. Good turnouts. The downside is that some faster people have shown up because they don't want to ride by themselves and don't want to travel out from the center of the city to attend faster rides. (Or maybe they don't want to attend faster rides because they like being in the front on rides that are clearly "below" their abilities.") To the credit of the leaders, they have not let these faster people dictate the show. They keep the pace where it is supposed to be and re-group if people get caught at lights or fall behind on longer hills. Those who go off the front have to wait.

caloso

Exactly. You'll also see a version of this come up in the commuting forum where they'll deride the "fully-kitted roadies" on their route and state that if you aren't using fenders and panniers then you're not a real commuter. Not realizing that lots of racers also commute (it's really the most efficient way to get the mileage necessary to be competitive) and that they're likely doing the commute on the road bike they already have.

Abe_Froman

OK, well how bout a little help with terminology...what type of, or name, or A/B/C/Q, etc, ride should I be looking for that would be challenging but not make me want to kill myself?

When I go for solo rides, I typically do 35-45 miles, cruise at ~18mph on flats with no wind, with fenders/shorts/t shirt/sandals. Anything faster than that and I fear my joints won't hold up very well...I've got some knee issues that like to crop up when I push too far/fast/soon.

merlinextraligh

^ if you're normal cruising speed is 18mph solo, you could easily do a North Florida Bike Club B ride.

Easiest way to find out though is pick what looks like a little bit too easy ride for you. If that works out too easy in fact, do the next faster ride next time.

Repeat until you find your level.

bbbean 

Bingo!

You know, sometimes at the local park, there are groups of guys playing basketball. Some of the groups show up in great shape, have expensive shoes, and they play very aggressively and competitively. Clearly, playing basketball is a major investment of time and energy to them. They look like they love coming to the park to play ball.

Other groups show up who are a little heavier and slower, in regular street clothes, and they play much less aggressively and competitively. These groups look like socializing and hanging out are as important to them as playing great basketball. They look like they love coming to the park to play ball.

Who's having more fun? Who's doing it "right"? Could it be that both groups are enjoying themselves? Could we just leave it at "people tend to find other people at their own level to enjoy sports/hobbies with?"

goenrdoug

Very much the way my club does our rides. Instead of letters, however, they're color-coded.

The B ride is the most difficult to pigeon-hole. It just is. Differences in goals and fitness always leave that group fragmented by the end of the ride -- always. I've led that ride and talked to some of the others who've led it and it's always some combination of the same things:

You have some riders who are content to simply accomplish the B-level route and aren't interested in going as fast as possible.
You have some riders who are on their way up, fitness-wise, and are pushing hard the whole ride. They could probably yo-yo off the back of the A ride but are nervous to step up to it.
You have riders who should ride C, but look at the other C riders and, out of pride, decide that it's not the right crowd for them. These riders end up yo-yo-ing off the back of the B ride causing the ride leader to have to slow the pace and/or lengthen rest stops for them to latch back on.

There's no easy answer. I'd suggest that you consider continuing to ride the B ride and see if maybe you can work on some skills of your own and/or help some of the riders who are at a lower level than you step up to solid B riders. Maybe you and your crew will eventually all move up to the A ride and, eventually, BECOME the A ride.

Seattle Forrest

That's just for the insurance companies.

zymphad

I don't ride groups and no interest. I don't know what group riders discuss or their spending habits. But I do know, I enjoy watching GCN, the last 30km of a UCI pro race and enjoyed building my bike.
- I try to keep my riding minimal, but cycling shoes, clothing has made my riding more enjoyable and I don't apologize for it. I like my bike, I like my stuff.

I also know I hate hippies on bikes. Good riddance, I have zero sympathy when I hear a hippy dickhead got hit riding through intersections putting everyone who uses the road in danger. Good riddance to hippies.

On my rides, I see more solo riders, who look like they are just enjoying themselves. Majority of the bikes I see granted are nice, Specialized, Trek and Cervelo carbon race bikes. But doesn't look they spent $12K on them. People spend $2-5K on variety of hobbies, I don't see it that different, at least it's a healthy hobby. Whoever said, let's pick up golf to get fit, improve cardio, lose some weight, control cholesterol and improve our health? Said no one ever.
- I don't know if they are riding by numbers, but many appear to be riding for fitness too, I'd say about 1/3 of them leave me in the dust.

I don't have a power meter, and I'll never get one, no interest at all, my cycling isn't about numbers. I do want a computer at some point for turn by turn navigation, my only interest in cycling right now is to increase the distance and see more of my state by bike.

grolby

Whatever, guy. This is pretty gross.