Chains and cassettes still differ in price.
All the pre 11 speed RDs and FDs rendered obsolete with the introduction of a different cable pull ratios.

Planned obsolescence (aided with marketing) is common in practically all the industries - bike industry alike. Getting people to buy new stuff, instead of using old stuff, God forbid repairing it. That's the way world runs today, whether one is aware of it, or not.

now you're pivoting and stretching the truth, the difference in consumables is at most ~10%. No one is really denying what you are saying, that marketing and planned obsolescence aren't real things, but to say there is no difference other than an added gear and that things are getting substantially more expensive at the same time simply isn't true in this case.

Well, that's not true of chains, the most expensive 8 speed chain is still cheaper than the cheapest 11 speed chain.

Seems to me, if you go to a specialty shop, you should expect them to sell you their best. If a consumer buys something but doesn't take advantage of it, it's the consumer who isn't living up to his end of the bargain.

If someone doesn't want a high-performance bike, he should stay out of the high-end bike shops. If he just wants a serviceable bike to ride around on, he can pick one up at Target or online. If it's more convenient to go to a full-line bike shop, it's up to him to be honest about what he wants. Salespeople have no more control than a customer is willing to give them. It's as simple as that.

Boy, you've got the cycling industry figured out!

I'm not upgrading my 1996 bike to get a 2x11, it will always be a 2x8. However, when I go to purchase a new bike, nobody is making a road bike with 2x8... so I'll be getting an 11-speed cassette. Likewise, any new bike I buy will have brifters, I might like some down-tube shifters, but nobody makes them any more*

Planned obsolescence?? See my above point, there's not obsolete about my 20 year old bike. I still get 8-speed cassettes and chains for that bike without any issue.

However, I will agree with your point in part, some bike shops will push the "obsolete" angle to get people to buy new bikes. I know a local chain that tells customers that a 20 year bike can't be repaired and pushes them to replace the bike. However, I have the joy of working with a wonderful LBS that loves classic bikes - they work with my 1984 Schwinn (now my kids city bike) and my 1996 Mondonico.

Yeppers, you gonna drop it, or do you need the last word? Just thinking out loud, you'll likely need the last word.

* OK, there are some options, but I'm just making a point... work with me here, okay?

My padded shorts have planned obsolescence.

I'm such a mindless sheep.

I came here hoping to read a thread about padded shorts and saddles.

I blame [MENTION=406877]PepeM[/MENTION] for the derailment.

Why do some people think that downtube shifters were the only type of shifters before brifters came out? Bar ends have been around for a long time and still going strong.

Oh, I almost forgot. Padded shorts or padded saddles, discuss.

Correct. He started this whole thing when he got that silly steel bike with DT shifters as a way of reminding us all that 10/11 speed STI levers are a marketing ploy. Things degraded from there.

Brand new 2x7 STI: Save Up to 60% Off Carbon Fork Road Bikes - Motobecane Mirage S

Grouches rejoice! I'll sit back and quietly enjoy my two 11-speed bikes, one of which has a 30+ year old frame.

C'mon, it was right in the post, the footnotes :

I am one of those rare individuals that tried STIs, (and indexed for that matter) and didn't like them. They didn't do what I wanted them to do, so I went back to friction. I'll admit that I am not a serious cyclist, though. If electronic ever gets where it will do what I want from a shifting system, then I might go to it. I do have both padded shorts and saddles with some padding on them. I use them both at the same time. Am I breaking some kind of rule?

What did you want them to do?

It seemed as though you were referring to downtube shifters only. And, you had only mentioned 2x8 in your post. I feel totally justified in pointing out that even 2x7 is still available

Fair point, thank you for the complete reporting of out-dated tech oops! I mean non-marketing focused tech

BTW - Do you ride with padded shorts or padded saddle or both ... or neither ???

Specifically, I want to be able to shift to any gear I want with just 1 or 2 actions of the levers, period. I know that STI can jump multiple cogs with one hit now. Maybe electronic can go to any gear with one hit now of each lever. If it can't, I don't need it that much. I have a ride coming up in 2 weekends that has constant transitions from one end the gear range to the other. I see a lot of chains getting dropped or momentum being lost in those transitions while people are rifling through their gears. They can't get clipped out fast enough and do the sideways fall.

Silicone sit-bone implants for me. Best surgery I've ever had. Makes those naked bike rides far more tolerable, too. Family thinks I'm crazy but compared to a lifetime of Assos shorts, the cost was easily justified.

Also wired power meter. I am not falling for those dubious advantages of wireless!

They sound like some really experienced riders with well tuned bikes.

Have you tried anything with modern Campy levers? I don't recall the exact number of gears, but their groups from Chorus on up allow you to shift multiple gears with a longer sweep of either the thumb trigger or the paddle (so both directions on the cassette).

I had an old bike with Chorus and I'd regularly dump multiple gears at once when hitting a hill using the thumb lever. Worked perfectly.

Shimano downshifts work the same way, just with fewer gears per lever sweep.

It might be their first time on that route/ride also. What happens is they are bombing along down a good hill on their highest gear or in tuck/coast trying to hit maximum speed. Suddenly, it changes into a climb in the 6-10% range. There is no runout before the climb. Or, there is a blind turn coming up. The rider goes to the brakes hard, makes the turn, and encounters the same sudden 6-10% climb. Over and over again.

I don't understand, isn't that what a front shifter is for?

I dunno about you, but that all sounds pretty dangerous. But, obviously, if you've got barcons, it's all good.