I rented that 2016 Giant for three days for a little over U$D 40, so I'm not complaining too much. I just used the front brakes a little more than usual, as those pads seemed fine. Not to mention, with rim brakes, don't have to worry about this:



Source is r e d d i t, dunno why BF censor software auto-deletes that from the URL.

If discs aren't for you, that's great, but this thread isn't for you either, then. This is a thread to discuss road disc options, not a thread to discuss road disc merits.

Cool story - take it to the MTB forum, since the guy was riding an MTB.

Referencing off the shelf bike weights when building a custom bike is pretty irrelevant, don't you think? Your frame builder is responsible for only one or two things, the frame and maybe the fork. Have any of these three builders quoted weights for disc vs. rim brake options? That's step one.

Step two is all down to your choices. The components to consider are rims, spokes (maybe), hubs, calipers, levers, and rotors. Nothing else will change due to your choice of brakes so if you can figure out the weight tradeoff based on your realistic choices of components in those categories you can get an exact number for the total weight tradeoff, which should always be balanced with the notion that you are getting superior braking for touring conditions.

So do you know what your choices would be for a rim brake build? Do you have a budget in mind at least? If you go back and read my post on how for my build I added 1.5 lbs. (0.7 lbs. less than your estimate) by going disc you'll see how I got there. You'll also see how with some different choices I could have dropped that to less than 1 lb., an undeniably paltry difference in weight for a touring bike

Excellent! Sounds like those poorly maintained rear brakes taught you how to use your brakes properly (mostly front with maybe a little rear).

How do you do something so silly like this? What's the back story here?

When you are stopped and off the bike chatting with your friends about how awesome that descent was you don't realize you are resting the rotor on your leg.

Perhaps accompanied by some mary jane?

this reminds me of the debate 10 years ago when digital camera started to come to market in a more mainstream fashion. The group of purist film shooters we are all saying the following : We know digital is the future but nothing could ever replace film. Plus we don't need digital. Film is fine. It does the job.

I live in the PNW. We have hills everywhere and it rain 8 months a year. If you don't ride a disc brake bike around here, you are looking for trouble.

Darwin.

no matter how great a technology is there is always someone that will find a way to hurt themselves.

Some comments -

1. I don't want a touring bike. I want a performance bike that I can use for uber light credit card touring on occasion.

2. Interesing that you got it down to 1.5lbs additional, but I still think that is too much. I really don't want to go backwards on weight. I do presume that at some point disc bikes will converge with the weight of current rim brake bikes. That's when I'll probably be willing to do go this route. Until then, no - for a variety of personal reasons. This is frustrating for me because I do need to make a wheel purchase so I can ride a wider pair of tubeless clincher tires (most of my bikes are on tubulars) in the 30mm range. Given I don't care for my current canti/v-brake framed bike, this wheel choice holds the whole thing up.

3. Yes, I'm well aware of the tradeoffs of frame design with respect to disc and rim brakes. I have built a number of bikes over the years, I am an engineer, and I have had lengthy discussion with frame builders on the performance specs I'm looking for.

4. I try and avoid riding in the wet (it's a thing with me, I don't like it) so there really is little difference in braking in my application. Or, if there is, it's within margins. I grant you that in the wet, there is a difference, otherwise not so much.

5. With two of the frame builders I have discussed, I have already used them to design other rim brake bikes that I currently own. Using those designs as a starting point was the basis of the lengthy discussions on this topic.

6. Yes, I've found it possible to get weight reductions on disc brake bikes as well however I wasn't happy with some of the component choices (gets to be a fairly narrow set of components) to get there. All said, it's still in the range of too much weight penalty for my interest (among a couple of other things). Looking more like I'll have to wait a couple of more years or so.

J.

I never said that.
What you quote is actually the antilog...digital photograph is much less maintenance than film. Disk is more maintenance than caliper is the biggest impediment to disk brakes. More? A pound as discussed...a watt of aero deficit ...and cost....hydro disk system costs more.


I have owned disk brake bikes when I rode more off road. They are more fiddly than caliper brakes...but disk is much better than V brakes I believe most would agree. But for road, if you want the definite answer, ask Chris Froome...this always rankles those that don't believe pro racing is applicable to porky Joe....lol.

Actually John, to me, your preoccupation with a lb of weight which is a bowel movement in the morning misses the point.


Further, anybody who wants a custom frame unless they are freakishly proportioned or large like a NBA basketball player....a further waste of money. No custom boutique frame maker can match the performance of a top tier race bike from any top big brand manufacturer. None.


So, even though for a flat lander, I am not a fan of disk brakes on the road, weight is almost irrelevant...or pales compared to maintenance and cost.

I was almost through the first page then realized five more pages already TLDNR. This is why I buy all my bicycles in strict secrecy under cover of darkness.

I certainly wouldn't call your build a "touring bike" but it is (for me) the gold standard for disc road bikes.

No way I would do deep-dish cf rims with anything but discs ... and on an aero bike the weight isn't really an issue.

However, waiting on those specially machined levers from JoeJack's Custom Foundry ....

I keep hearing that Shimano is the way to go ... maybe heavier than the custom Campy/HY-RD you chose, but a lot simpler.

The difference between pro and you and I is they have a whole team of mechanical expert taking care of their bikes. We don't. Disc is the savior of carbon wheel. No longer do you need to build for a braking surface on the rim. I saw some new true axle disc design that makes wheel changing a breeze. For common Joe, maintaining disc brake is actually not that hard. It's difference and I can always rely on my disc brake to stop my bike whenever I need to. You are really complaining about 1 watt of deficit ? a gust of wind can take away 15 watts in a moment notice. I am sorry but I rather be safe.

Maybe you live in a flat area where it's always dry but I don't. Even on the dry, hydraulic disc brake have a great modulation and it's very easy to apply the proper amount of force to brake. I was doing a Gran Fondo a couple weeks ago and going 81km/h (50pmh) down a hill with a right turn at the bottom. Let me tell you I was glad I had disc brake to slow me down properly and safely.

The UCI are going to work with the manufacturer and disc brake is going to become mandatory eventually. It will happen. It is just a matter of time.

You said discs add at least 2.2 lbs because the frame and wheels are heavier. Turns out the frame is lighter. You were wrong. Doesn't matter what the bike costs, the point is you don't know what you're talking about.

Your concern for my toilet habits is....odd, but strangely touching. Still, a bit in the TMI category. 😉

Well, I do have physical limitations that are better accommodated in a custom frame than in any other bike I've owned and has led to better comfort and performance over stock off the shelf bikes. Too, I get what I want with a lot less trade offs. And I can afford it. So it's not a waste and quite to the contrary.

For you. The additional weight is an issue for me in several ways and part of it is a physical limitation which I'd rather not discuss here.

I have different interests in the bikes I buy than you apparently. Great to have choices, isn't it?

So I'll continue to wait and let the specs converge a lot more.

J.

I considered a Domane, but I never wound up buying it.

People manage to drown themselves in the bathtub, too.

Moar bikes, less BS.

At this point, I'm mostly looking at framesets; I see that Giant has listed their 2018 TCR Pro Disc offering. $1800? Doable...



I know that the full bike comes standard with 25mm tires on semi-wide rims and I came across a blog post from an owner that says that it can probably take a 32... Interesting...

Seems like all the disc bashers either don't have them or have had mechanical style. I have 15000 miles on my hydros with absolutely no maintenance other than pad changes. The brakes are spectacular! Not just for nasty situations. No fade, superior modulation. Set it and forget it.

The whole way people are treating JohnJ80 ... kind of despicable. Telling him custom frames are worthless? Really? A frame completely and precisely suited to exactly what he wants and needs a frame to do is not as good as a generic frame which is guaranteed to involve compromises? Telling him weight and aero don't matter? When he says to him they do?

More of the "Borg will absorb" mindset ... agree with us or we will destroy you.

I agree with him that until discs have Zero weight penalty (which day I assume is coming) then that will always be a consideration unless one is building a touring bike. Yes, you can cite the Dr. LazyAss theorem (dumping before riding balances out the greater weight) but the fact is, people want lighter bikes ... except when arguing.

There is a reason manufacturers list weights. There is a reason why bike weights keep coming down. The less work it takes to move the bike ... and for all the people who claim it doesn't matter .... I don't see any of them on 42-lb Schwinn Suburbans. EVERY rider has an acceptable weight range ... and ignorant riders argue that only theirs is right.

This is why there are so many threads on discs and so little profitable or informative discussion---which ever team, pro- or anti- runs the thread, tries to run off everyone else. it is like politics, where the name of the party yopu support matters but the Policies of that party aren't ever discussed rationally. it is Us or it is Them---and They are the Enemy.

Really pathetic.

Discs are better (IMO) in certain applications and not in others (again, IMO.) I eagerly await the day )as do others including JohnJ80) when discs bring no weight penalty.

JohnJ80 is not saying discs suck. he is just saying that in His Specific Situation, in a very specific application, he doesn't find discs to be worth the trade-off.

Why can't people simply accept that?

Even the anti-disc guys are against this guy. he can't win.

I hope most reading my posts in this thread seeing I am poking a bit of fun at it. Each of us have different needs, ride in different environments...some in snow...big hills or mountains...lots of rain...a mixture of off and on road conditions....do fast descents on deep V carbon rims in hot weather...etc. My riding condition in flat Florida is very benign. The wind are the hills in FL...so riding aero is the most important factor. Don't need an uber light climbing bike here...or one with Brembo brakes. Disk brakes on road have little benefit to me. But...disks have many benefits as you point out. There are many conditions that favor disk brakes...in fact, more conditions than not if factoring in off road, gravel and mtb's. Who can deny the wonderful stopping power of good hydro disks?
In some ways, its kind of like the argument of a good alloy wheel versus a carbon wheel. Only reason to go carbon is if you race or riding in aggressive group rides at risk of getting dropped. Even then, many do just fine on alloy wheels that aren't 40mm deep.