Upshifting to stand and pedal
10-02-17, 04:31 AM
#26
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Usually I have been slogging up a hill for a long time. My legs are tired and my butt is starting to go numb. I use the standing position to rest certain parts, not blow up my heartrate.
If I don't upshift significantly, then my standing cadence is too fast, or if I slow it down on purpose, that means my rear foot is still pushing down on the pedal (instead of pulling), at the same time the rear pedal is lifting up = wasted energy.
I find that the "low energy" standing and pedaling speed is somewhere around 40 rpm. Lean forwards, try to have a lot of body weight on the hands, front foot uses body weight to push down, rear foot pulls up lightly. No pulling up on the handlebar, but weight does shift from one hand to another. Terrible form, body bouncing all over the place, but at least I can keep this up for a long time.
If I don't upshift significantly, then my standing cadence is too fast, or if I slow it down on purpose, that means my rear foot is still pushing down on the pedal (instead of pulling), at the same time the rear pedal is lifting up = wasted energy.
I find that the "low energy" standing and pedaling speed is somewhere around 40 rpm. Lean forwards, try to have a lot of body weight on the hands, front foot uses body weight to push down, rear foot pulls up lightly. No pulling up on the handlebar, but weight does shift from one hand to another. Terrible form, body bouncing all over the place, but at least I can keep this up for a long time.
10-02-17, 05:35 AM
#27
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How do you measure tough? Steep enough that you're out of gears and can't do more than a 35 cadence seated? Or what? Me, the tougher the climb, the more I sit. So maybe 2 minutes standing out of 30 minutes. If it's a "tough" climb, I'd be at LT the whole way, no room at the top for extra effort at that length.
We all know a climb is as tough as one wants to make it.
I guess what I mean by tough would be a climb with no dips/downhills. While being ridden in a race/event or with your buddies where you are tying to get to the top as quickly as possible while still being able to complete the race/event/ride.
10-02-17, 08:48 AM
#28
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Shift six cogs on the back? Darn, if I have six gears left on a climb, then that climb is a flat.
Didn't know we were talking about attacking. Of course if you intend to accelerate, you'll probably have to shift. You will probably have to shift even if you remain on the saddle.
Darn, if I ever need to use a cadence that low, I'll change my gearing.
...
Of course there are times you might need to shift up when standing. Other times, probably not. Point is, it depends on the situation. 'Common advice' such as shift two before standing sound like nonsense to me. Do whatever the situation calls for, it should be pretty obvious. Riding a bike is not that complicated.
I have always shifted up two or so gears when standing on the pedals to take a momentary advantage of the increased leverage and weight. This was often enough to open a gap between me and another rider on climbs, a gap which he sometimes would not be able to close. It the normal practice when getting out of the saddle, it surprises me that some people don't understand it.
...
Of course there are times you might need to shift up when standing. Other times, probably not. Point is, it depends on the situation. 'Common advice' such as shift two before standing sound like nonsense to me. Do whatever the situation calls for, it should be pretty obvious. Riding a bike is not that complicated.
10-02-17, 10:43 AM
#29
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It's tough to adapt current techniques to my older road bike with downtube shifters. I had to study the old school racing films for climbing techniques. Those guys did a lot more mashing, more of that rocking upper body motion to give the legs an extra oomph. It's harder to move fluidly between sitting to spin and standing. And it's harder on the knees.
Big advantage to handlebar mounted shifters, even older style thumb shifters. I find it easier to move between sitting and standing on my hybrid with thumb shifters, than my road bike with downtube shifters.
Fortunately we don't have too many long climbs uninterrupted by spots that level out just long enough to make it easier to shift with downtube shifters. So I usually just go with whatever gear I'm committed to. Mostly I start out in a taller gear, stand and sprint for awhile, then downshift and sit to spin out the rest. It's awkward to do the opposite with downtube shifters.
Big advantage to handlebar mounted shifters, even older style thumb shifters. I find it easier to move between sitting and standing on my hybrid with thumb shifters, than my road bike with downtube shifters.
Fortunately we don't have too many long climbs uninterrupted by spots that level out just long enough to make it easier to shift with downtube shifters. So I usually just go with whatever gear I'm committed to. Mostly I start out in a taller gear, stand and sprint for awhile, then downshift and sit to spin out the rest. It's awkward to do the opposite with downtube shifters.
10-02-17, 08:53 PM
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Shift six cogs on the back? Darn, if I have six gears left on a climb, then that climb is a flat.
Didn't know we were talking about attacking. Of course if you intend to accelerate, you'll probably have to shift. You will probably have to shift even if you remain on the saddle.
Darn, if I ever need to use a cadence that low, I'll change my gearing.
...
Of course there are times you might need to shift up when standing. Other times, probably not. Point is, it depends on the situation. 'Common advice' such as shift two before standing sound like nonsense to me. Do whatever the situation calls for, it should be pretty obvious. Riding a bike is not that complicated.
Didn't know we were talking about attacking. Of course if you intend to accelerate, you'll probably have to shift. You will probably have to shift even if you remain on the saddle.
Darn, if I ever need to use a cadence that low, I'll change my gearing.
...
Of course there are times you might need to shift up when standing. Other times, probably not. Point is, it depends on the situation. 'Common advice' such as shift two before standing sound like nonsense to me. Do whatever the situation calls for, it should be pretty obvious. Riding a bike is not that complicated.
About the six cogs in the middle of a climb - an extreme case, but does happen in the middle for the same reasons it often happens at the beginning of steep ones. I don't think I've ever been on a climb that had a consistent grade. Even if it's not rolling, there's always one kind of irregularity or another. Maybe it's different out west.... In any event, from time to time, rather than keeping a steady, measured pace the whole way up, I like to mix it up in response to those irregularities. Even if there's no one to attack, I may want to attack the hill, then take it really easy a bit. So, there may be a short, slight increase in grade that I'll stand to maintain speed through or accelerate over, then as grade eases (e.g., a short 12% bit followed by 8%, then 6%...), I'll shift to harder gears so I'm working just as hard on the 6% as I was on the 12%. And since the point was to work HARD on the 12%, you have to imagine that the same effort on 3-4% is going to result in some real acceleration. But there's still quite a bit of hill to go, and I want to relax now, so there's going to be big deceleration. And it has NOT flattened out - we've settled back in the 5-6% range again. I nearly double my cadence and cut my speed in half when I sit down in situations like that. No, it's not particularly efficient or pro, but it happens when I play around.
It's not that we always need to use certain cadences in different situations, sometimes we just want to.
