tomato coupe

Somewhere on the internet is a forum discussing the measurement of "manly" parts, and how some guys are cheating and posting inflated numbers.

Doge

So Phil cheated?

OBoile

I'm amazed at how worked up some people here can get about whether or not cheating should be called cheating. Seriously, don't people have better things to do?

PedalingWalrus

Has anyone tried to iphone Strava app option to send notification to selected contacts ? Does it work in a similar way as a spot device ?

...I'm referring to the Strava Beacon feature where you assign an emergency contact

...I think this is only available for premium members (adding this for clarification)

Bah Humbug

A 17-year-old would not be allowed the same equipment in an Ironman as an 18-year-old, because 17-year-olds are not allowed to compete in Ironman. In general triathlon, I don't know the minimum age (if any) to pick up a pro card, but there are no other age-related requirements or rules I'm aware of.

The pros have a different wetsuit temperature than age-groupers (68* instead of 76* (78* for general USAT)) and have different drafting rules on the bike (double the distance and must be staggered left vs right when at that distance). They are also always a mass start while age groupers are increasingly going off in time trial starts.

But really, this is all immaterial. You don't like USAC rules. You don't like Strava rules, or lack thereof, and not everyone else on Strava taking it as the Serious Business you do. If you or your kid raced Ironman you'd find you didn't like USAT or WTC rules. Heaven forbid your kid played football or basketball and you were getting to experience the joy of NCAA rules and official visits and permissible benefits. What it really seems, to me, is that you want a sport with no rules that restrict your kid whatsoever while forcing everyone else to compete on his ideal terms. It's understandable, in a way, but not a very sympathetic position.

In your position, I would be worried about my kid not being able to follow very simple and basic procedures like an adult, not that he isn't allowed to use the exact same equipment as an adult. Over in triathlon, if you miss packet pickup, you're not fined. You're just not allowed to compete. In the real world of college and professional life, the rules and requirements get much stricter, as I'm sure you know.

Doge

Then USA Cycling is still the only sporting authority [I know of] where athletes competing against each other for the same prize are not allowed the same equipment based on age.
For cycling Strava, as some other races, does not have that restriction.

I've been an adult and youth sports official over a decade, I like this stuff. Some rules are fair, some are not.

Kid's forget stuff. My other minor kid was recruited by the NCAA DI champions, coach was under a microscope. I had to do the signing. The Facebook had to come down. It is not as paperwork intensive as USAC. Each NCAA game, players are not required to file paperwork. Each USAC event, they are.

Anyway the disciplines (punishments) for USA Cycling are defined https://s3.amazonaws.com/imm-usac-ua...Discipline.pdf.
A rider can calculate what hits they want to take/what forgetting costs. Not signing in is 8A5(l) $20.
Taking a jersey hit for $20 and riding in a speed suit over jersey and shorts might be a good calculation. Rules change on this (I'm guessing for that reason) and now you can't start if you don't have the right kit.

Strava does not have that. Phil didn't pay $50 to do his KOM without a brake. USAC that is a DQ-8A1(i). Because it is not so defined it is more an honor system that folks should do it like those next to them.

Gaelen

This happened to me two days ago. I had what I thought was a really great ride after a few weeks off, then saw that Strava had "encountered an error" and had logged the first 4 miles then quit. It still had my total ride time, but, everything else was frozen.

pickettt

Don't worry, if you do a ride in the forest but there's no Strava there to record it.....the ride still happened.

Bah Humbug

.

So, again, it boils down to the fact that you have issues with USAC because it has too many rules and regulations. You then pin all your hopes and dreams on Strava, because it's "fair", only you wish there were more rules to make sure that everyone competed ("competed") on a level playing field and took it as seriously as you and your kid.

Doge

I care about rules that are arbitrarily enforced, not how many, or how few. USAC does not have too many IMO. I do wonder why they need paperwork each and every race.

As to this issue it is black and white.
For USAC, if athletes are going head to head, the junior is restricted, the adult is not.

Strava allows competitors to use the same equipment, while USAC does not.

I posted this has no effect on my kid, and pretty much never did. I can think of 1% of his races where it mattered. I learned about it because of my kid, that is all. The readings into my motivation or world view are a distraction.

Strava allows equal competitions for all ages with regard to equipment (and drugs) where USAC does not.

SethAZ 

I think that I and many other people having trouble describing Strava leader boards with the word "competition," even if on many segments people are trying to out-do each other. Not really interested in retaining a language lawyer and parsing every word to get to the bottom of it, though.

Bah Humbug

Yes, and that freedom you champion in your last line is exactly what you also hate about it (your whole rant about e-bikes and whatnot). You're trading a well-defined equipment restriction you hate for a lack of restriction you appear to also not like, with a side dose of everything else being unrestricted as well, if only by utter lack of enforcement. Strava allows (functionally) motor vehicles to compete with bicycles to compete with e-bikes and runners. Dopers to compete with clean athletes. And "digitalEPO". And someone else riding with your Garmin. All with zero consequences other than your ride getting flagged so you have to do it better next time.

For something that doesn't affect your kid, you are awfully emotionally invested in this.

Doge

I don't think I said hate.
When you have no rules, no rules are broken. I have not seen the Strava leader board segments (the big attempts, 3-4+ min one) that are tainted. Sure it takes some work to flag things, but it is free. I flag things. Every segment counts to someone, but it is the number of attempts that indicates how many people it is important to.

I'm interested in the conversation if that is what you mean by emotional. And my kid is good, but I don't feel he was robbed one way or the other, while I think others were. I see something, call something (or not). If you are emotional over this stuff you can't have 1,000+ hours (paid) to determine what is fair. I do. So I care, but more so technically.

Doge

I posted this thread here, not in the racing forum, because I think, while it is competition, it is not racing.
Racing cares about how the rider is on that day, against the others that show up, that day, under set rules.

Strava records what was done on the riders best day, under the best conditions under honor bound guidelines vs everyone else in the same situation.

Did you know who Phil Gaimon was before Strava? Some did, but they were few.

Cool awards for Strava results.
It is a competition. It makes people money and they get cool awards.
NoscoHammerAward.jpg

WhyFi

"e-bikes aren't cheating."
"e-bikes aren't cheating."
"e-bikes aren't cheating."

"Actually, if you look at the guidelines, ebikes are cheating."

"Did you see that Phil took his front brake off?"

Yeah, you totally strike me as non-emotional and interested in rational conversation.

SethAZ 

Phil Gaimon, post career, is known by a few people now because of Youtube much more than because of Strava. Sure, he used Strava as his schtick and prop for his videos, but it's really Youtube that has given him his 15 minutes.

That one or two of the probably tens or hundreds of thousands of people who hold a KOM on Strava have become "Internet famous" thanks to how they marketed their exploits does not make Strava segment KOMs suddenly a competition.

There's a guy out there who is moderately famous for his ability to eat the most hot dogs in one sitting. That does not make eating hot dogs a competition. If so then I suck at it, because on the rare occasions where I eat a hot dog I usually stop at one.

Doge

You are quoting me, but not using the post quoting feature. Are you quoting something I posted, or your interpretation of it - here The Strava Thread?

Doge

This is a innovator in the cycling industry that was way ahead of his time and a true mathematics prodigy. Finished college in his teens, made the Nibble carbon fiber wheels in the 90s and quite a climber in the day. Oh he has some juggling world records.

kbarch

I like your analogy, in that many users don't intend to seriously compete, but actually, Strava IS a competition. Everyone who makes their rides public is included in the rankings and eligible for a trophy or crown. It's just that not every participant is a bona fide competitor. There are tons of spoilers, both willful and inadvertent. Most of the time nobody pays any attention to how many hot dogs we eat, but Strava DOES pay attention to every ride we record. If you turn it on, you are necessarily entering the competition, pinning on a virtual number.
Maybe this wouldn't be a question if the default was for rides to be private.

WhyFi

It's called paraphrasing and you're getting selective with your memory - your initial response was 100% Phil-whining.

In any event, I'm out - having fun bashing people over the head with your worldview while insisting that reading in to your "motivation or worldview is a distraction."

Doge

"...We can confirm that Phil's bike still meets our definition of a traditional bike. "

Strava Support

DrIsotope

Back to stuff actually about Strava, I don't like that the monthly Climbing Challenge is now limited to two flavors: 7,500m and 8,000m. That's it. For 2015 and the first part of 2016, there would be challenges ranging from 4,000m to 11,000m. The Gran Fondo would also be anywhere from 100km to 130km. Now it's 100km month after month. Bring back the variety.

kbarch

More stuff about how Strava works, and how terribly disappointing it is:
Kudos. You don't get more kudos because your ride is more kudos-worthy, you get more because people have some occasion to check Strava. If there's some big event ride that happened, even if you don't participate and just make a lazy coffee run instead - Kudos come pouring in. Do some mega ride in the middle of the week, braving the elements to collect all kinds of medals: crickets (just those random riders you've never met who just seem to just follow as many people as possible). Of course, unless one wins a trophy, a person would have to do some serious digging to discern whether the PRs one got were significant - there's no ready way of telling when someone leapt up the leaderboard. VeloViewer has some great metrics in that regard, but there isn't the critical mass of followers, and it doesn't have the social media aspect.

atwl77

Yeah, people will just Kudos everything that appears on their activity feed. It's kind of like the Facebook Like also -- I've seen people (unintentionally, that is -- I'm not sneakily reading their Facebook feed over their shoulder or anything) just scroll through their feed and Like everything their friends post.

Doge

That's right. Like Facebook, the social media part seems closer to Instagram, where Kudos come from a combination of number of followers, how many things are posted and what is posted.

Sure, there is a base level of Kudos that just show up, but epic rides do see more. Or when the Garmin gets lost, and then the Garmin comes back, there seems to be a welcome back surge.

But it is social media, so the logic is like that, not based on ride worthy only.