Racing Dan

There is an other 9sp 11-32 called hg201 11-32 it is:

11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32
VS
11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32

It trades the final 1t jump for a 2t jump in the middle (19-21 rather than 18-21). I believe the hg201 version is better for most riders, as most tend to not use the very high gears too often.

Racing Dan

You are not a strong rider but you are "well in the 1 tooth gear range when I hit the hills" on a 52/36 11-32. Are you sure about that? The first 1t jump on the big ring is 99" to 107" or about 25mph too 27mph.

Bicycle Gear Calculator

rbk_3

CCM is a Crappy Tire bike. Sora will be miles upon miles better.

How old are the bikes you're looking at? Is the 105 5700 or 5800?

billyymc

Spoonrobot - curious what issues you've seen with the 105 shifters, and what generation of 105 has been most troublesome? My rear 105 shifter (at least one gen prior to current, maybe two...circa 2007) just broke this past weekend while riding. But that's with 21,000 miles on it. Up to this point I've had no issues with it...just cleaned it once a year and it's worked very well. I ordered a new set (3 x 10 5700, which is getting hard to find), and I believe the shift cables now are routed similarly to the brake cables so they will run along the handle bar - true? Instead of out the side of the shifter?

Anywho...as I said, from experience with one bike with 105 shifters, no complaints.

raria

Are we talking about the older Sora available with $500 bikes like the OP is referring to? Then its definitely 1+ pounds heavier than 5800. I wrenched in an LBS for a bit and handled quite a bit of the Sora vs 5800 stuff. The hollow-tech crankset is a good 200+ grams lighter than the Sora crankset. The Sora BB is also 250 grams compared to < 80 grams for the BB86 BB.

Weight aside, the brakes on the 5800 groupset are tremendous and a great improvement as is the shifting, in particular the FD.

gettingold

Not how who uses the term?

Wheelhouse: "a place or situation in which one is advantageously at ease."

Stick to mechanics. I make my living with words.

Lazyass

I can't find weights on the new Sora R3000. But a Sora 3500 group weighs a whopping 130g more than 5800.

mcours2006

Huge difference in cassette weight, accounting for more than half of that difference. Are we talking about a 11-25 for 5800 vs a 11-32 for 3500? Or comparing the same size?

njkayaker

You must live very simply.

It's a component group. It's hard to imagine anyone being inside it (unless the rider is a component too). (The use of the phrase here is odd.)

MRT2

1 of the things that holds me back from upgrading to an 11 speed group. The only advantage of 11 speed over 9 speed is closely spaced gearing on the small cogs. But the thing is, you have to be a professional bike racer or a CAT 2 or 3 racer to be able to actually use the 2 or 3 tallest gear combinations when using a standard 50 or 52 tooth big ring. I ride a fair amount but I am middle age and overweight, and 48 - 12 is plenty big for me. Honestly, if my 48 tooth big ring ever wore out, I would probably replace it with a 46 tooth just so I could stay in the big ring longer.

Racing Dan

I completely agree. Im on 10sp 12-28, 50/34. Its exactly the same as 11sp 11-28 bar the 11t cog. So far I haven't missed the 11t once. In fact I would wish Shimano had a 10sp 13-29 like campag.

https://www.ritzelrechner.de/?GR=DERS...&SL=2.3&UN=KMH

athrowawaynic

I cannot resist this opportunity to engage in classic BF tangentialism.

I agree. It's a weird usage. If something is in your wheelhouse, you are comfortable there--because you know how to handle the idiosyncrasies of the helm because it's your boat.

It would be really strange to say "I know how to use 105. It's in my wheelhouse. But Ultegra... man, I just don't get it--could you give me some pointers?"

njkayaker

The weird thing wasn't the weird usage (no biggie). It was the arrogant claim to "expertise": "Stick to mechanics. I make my living with words." (said after looking it up and still not getting it).

gettingold

I certainly didn't mean to be arrogant but that is exactly what it is when you tell somebody they are using the wrong word. It is rude even if you are right, which I still think he was not. Have you ever heard, "that fastball was in his wheelhouse"? Pretty common baseball phrase and it means right in the comfort zone. I don't think they mean that baseball was in the ship's pilot house.

Anyway, I would take 105 over Sora any time. I can understand the argument Tiagra is more cost effective, but Sora? With that logic, a CCM is more cost effective than a Domane Would I buy it? Not ever.

njkayaker

It wasn't just a "wrong word". And it's not "exactly" being arrogant by any objective standard.

If one says something that doesn't appear to make much sense, people are very likely to comment about it. It's not something you can prevent.It's not "rude" (even if you don't like it) If you don't like it, either avoid the internet or write more sensibly.

It's a phrase that sticks out (that increases the risk of people commenting about an apparent misuse).

You haven't made your case that you are right about it.

It seems it's a metaphor related to a space you occupy that you have control over. That metaphor works for baseball (I guess) but doesn't really work for component groups.

The metaphorical "wheelhouse" is a real or metaphorical space a person is in. No person is in a component group (that doesn't make sense).

https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/ling...o-baseball-to/

Why is 105 in the "comfort zone" and Ultegra not? No one can tell what the heck you are getting at.

What you wrote comes across as arrogant. As a professional writer, that should have been obvious to you.

McBTC

You mean, 'tact' apparently is not in his wheelhouse?

Iride01 

Is the question the "well in" part or whether I am in the one tooth range at all? Well like everything else, that depends. Obviously it isn't working for the circumstances you are imagining.

I ride in areas of rolling terrain. So I'm coming off one downhill and going right into the next climb almost all the time. Yes, sometimes beginning a climb > 30mph. If I'm in my 36 front, then definitely I'm starting the climb in the 11 on the rear. Typically I'm in the 52 ring though and when I get to the point where I'm actually starting the significant grade of the climb and not just shifting due to bleeding off speed I can't physically maintain with my muscle power, I'm still at least in the 14 if not the 13 or 12 gear. So yeah... I'd call that well within the one tooth range.

Still what does all that matter? I still think that if the OP is comparing a 9 speed to an 11 speed and money is not an issue, then get the 11 speed. I still don't know why people will believe less gears are better than more gears. More gears, more ratios, more options for maintaining your cadence and optimal power output.

I might agree that if you already have a 9 speed, it's not enough difference to make that the only factor to claim you must buy another bike.

Of course on the 9, 7 or 5 spd cassette, there is a cog that will let me maintain my choosen cadence. But likely at a less than optimum power output for me at that moment for those conditions which means less speed.

musicmaster

You're forgetting mountains. Going 35+ downhill isn't hard.

MRT2

When I get past 35 mph, I usually coast.

Iride01 

Mountains? Who needs mountains to get up to 35mph? You just need a slight grade going down without a bad headwind.

Spoonrobot 

The initial generation of 5800 was a step back IMO. The front derailleur has a tendency to cause over-shift situations very easily compared to 5700 and was much more sensitive to height over the big chainring than previously. They tried something new with the longer lever arm and FD-5800 just did not work very well, they also didn't last very long. We were getting FD-5801 way earlier than I expected. The improved derailleur is much better but AFAIK is not as widespread on OEM bikes, yet. The shifting both front and rear was also not nearly as crisp and tactile as 5700 or even the updated lower end groups. Rear shifter has a tendency to shred cables and this ends up with fragments that contaminate both the housing and shifter body. Any cable replacement for 5800 will almost always require a housing replacement as well. This gets expensive when the cables only last 3,000 miles. Both R3000 and R4700 shift much better, this means both faster and with better tactile feedback to the fingers. 5800 shifters just didn't last as long either, our high mileage guy had his wear out in a little less than a year, something like 14,000 miles and his were done. Previously he'd been using 5700 and they'd gone at least twice as long. I'm working on another 5800 bike that has shifting issues that haven't been fixed by housing, cable and derailleur replacement that most likely will be a shifter issue - less than 10,000 miles on that one.

Sorry if this is confusing or hard to read; my wheelhouse isn't made from words so sometimes I have problems.

Iride01 

What are the "overshift" situations? Overshifts from what I'm imagining are incorrect adjustment of the limit screws. Of course improper mounting of the cable to the hold down and adjusting the inline cable adjustments for the wrong reason will add to the mess of figuring out what is really wrong.

I've got a 105 5801 that will be going on my other bike soon. Maybe I'll see what you think is so wrong with the 5800 then. But for now all I can see is perhaps the 5800 front DR is a design that allows too many way to install it wrong or adjust it wrong. . But for me, the 5800 FD has been as good as any other I've had.

gettingold

Since you won't leave this alone, I love Ultegra. The original question was a comparison between Sora, which I do not believe is a good recreational road group, and 105, which I think is. Between 105 and Ultegra, I would choose Ultegra, but I personally think 105 is a better deal for the price.

I don't know what ruffled your feathers, my original comment was not even directed at you, it was at the guy who basically said 105 sucks, without any initial explanation. It struck me as trolling. He later said why, which is fine.

And I am not a writer, I am a lawyer. You appear to be a professional pedant. Have a good life.

Dan333SP

This is equally true for 5700. I've had at least 4 shift cables shear in the right lever body and had to pull out little shreds of cable bit by bit, They go with very little warning, you feel a bit of looseness on the right lever and then a couple miles later it just rips and jumps into the smallest cog. Fun times.

Anyway, one thing to dispel in this thread is the constant reference to a group being good enough, "unless you race". There aren't special conditions in a race that suddenly make Sora inadequate, there are plenty of people I've seen in races on Sora/Tiagra. Sure, not at the P1/2 level, but in your average 4/5 race it's not holding anyone back. If it shifts and brakes smoothly and reliably, it's good enough to race on.

raria

Your stats say the 5800 hollowtech crankset is *heavier* than the Sora crankset?

[
​​​QUOTE=Lazyass;20316285]I can't find weights on the new Sora R3000. But a Sora 3500 group weighs a whopping 130g more than 5800.[/QUOTE]
Ll