Thanks to everyone that replied. I appreciate the info.
Rich

I will add that In the past, anytime I had to contact SRAM about a warranty issue, they never questioned what I was telling them, and almost every part was replaced(often upgraded).

Shimano is a little bit more difficult, and Campagnolo always reacted like it was the first time they heard of anyone having the issue.

Guess I hit the nail on the head in post #40 .

Are there a lot of folks out there buying Red who can't adjust their COMPONENTS? If so, I'm just out of touch with reality.

Maybe YOU would have UNDERSTOOD what I POSTED if I had USED MY CAPS LOCK key MORE.

Another happy Red22 user here. The Yaw front shifting is awesome.

Sram is dead to me.

Not to beat a dead horse but a couple more questions if I may.
A lot of the issues I have read about seam to be at least a few years old. I would think that a company would correct these faults. Is that not the case?
In regard to bleeding the brakes so often, could I ask what the reason is for that?
And lastly, would E Tap have the same issues (front derailleur and often brake bleeding)
Thanks again.
Rich

Bleeding the (disc) brakes often is due to their choice of using DOT brake fluid, it absorbs water just like your brake fluid in a car. So it ends up needing to be changed more often than a mineral oil based system like shimanos. If you are using etap or red22 rim, the brakes are still cable so no bleeding

just for the record, there is an etap hydro now.

does it have the same problems of eTap, but with SRAM/Avid hydraulic problems?

How often do they need to be bled (flushed)?
I have one car that I flush the brake fluid every four years.
I generally keep a daily driver for twelve years and never bleed or flush the fluid. (even though I know I should at least once)

Oh right, haven't seen one in person yet so slipped my mind.
I haven't noticed a need more than once a year if that. I do it preemptively like most maintenance. The amount of fluid and displacement in a bike hydro system is a lot smaller though so you'd probably notice air/water absorption a lot faster.

Mechanic here. I can't say I've ever seen a broken SRAM shifter (except crash damage), or a Yaw FD I couldn't tune to shift properly (I suspect a large part of the bad rep for SRAM's front shifting is down to the original Red FD (total crap) plus the special setup procedure of Yaw). I really like the Yaw FD actually, although tuning it can be a fiddle.

The shifters are beautifully simple; a very elegant design. They make Ergos look complicated, and STIs look like a rat's nest of watch guts. However, they don't feel anywhere near as nice as Campy or Shimano levers. It's also very difficult to reuse a shift cable after it's been removed, unlike Campy or Shimano (except for the first generation of hidden cable STIs, which are also a pain like that). The larger radius of the cable spool means they don't fatigue cables like Shimano shifters, and also makes for a much better signal to noise ratio in the cable system (Shimano has been sailing close to the wind on that score ever since 9s).

Campy's and Shimano's drivetrains run a little quieter, perhaps. The Red billet cassette amplifies sound a bit, but I believe SRAM chains are also a little noisier (I run a Dura-Ace chain on my SRAM bike). Not a fan of SRAM's choice of brake fluid; aside from absorbing water, DOT fluid is nasty stuff you don't want on your skin, in your eyes (yep), or on paint. That's a big black mark from me for their hydro.

Main advantages are light weight and rear shifting accuracy. The only main disadvantage (aside from DOT fluid) is one that everybody except Shimano shares - you can't shift to a lower gear while braking with one sweet move (which only really matters if you run your front brake on the right*, and you're on mechanical shifting).

*Which everybody should, because your front brake is your main brake and your right shifter is your main shifter, and sometimes you use a hand for something else. When I realised this I swapped sides, after thirty years of the other way. Took a couple of years for my bike handling to recover, but totally worth it.

Since we're on the subject of SRAM Red. Is there anywhere.. in the US, etc. That you can buy reasonably priced SRAM components? I thought about putting a Red Etap setup on a bike I'm considering building and I have no idea where to start.

Reasonably proceed Etap? I'd start by waiting a couple of years.

Not everybody who's prepared to pay through the nose has it yet.

Plenty of websites sell the SRAM Red 22. Very durable imo - and the shifting of the mechanical Red 22 (the one I have) is something special!
For example - I bougth stuff from these guys:
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/sram...iABEgIBM_D_BwE

Getting back to mechanical shifting for a moment, I'd say the thing that tends to break them most is releasing the cable when it has too much tension on it. This only applies to escapement mechanisms, so most Campy shifters are exempt.

Shimano found out the hard way it was a bad idea to offer a triple-only front shifter, on the 5700 group I think it was.

Thank you!
I have considered going mechanical.. but, this time around, Honestly, I've been considering trying out an electric groupo. Just for something different. I've had nothing but shimano for years and there's nothing inherently bad about them. Maybe I can swap out the groupo on my Wilier with an electric and the bike I'm building stay mechanical. The etap is just SO pricey! lol I wish SRAM would make an etap version of the force22

I was able to ride a bike with ETap yesterday. I liked the shifting in the rear but did not care for the way the front shifted. It certainly was not worth the added cost. (to me)
The only bike I have ridden for the past 17yrs is equipped with Record 10 spd. While I wanted disc brakes, at this time I think I will be going with Record 11 spd with rim brakes.
Again, I thank everyone who took the time to reply. I appreciate the info.

triple shifters work fine on doubles.

I think that he's talking about 5600, which evidently had a pretty problematic front shifter when paired with a double. The internals on mine broke early on. When I brought it to the shop, it wasn't at all unexpected - they, and Shimano, had seen it happen plenty of times and it was replaced with a double-specific iteration (5601 IIRC) that they'd released presumably because of the problems in the wild.

weird. I had a set 6603 set up as double shifters for 40k+ miles. No issues.

depends how you set up the extra clicks. If you put them towards the inside(ie release cable against lower limit) then it wasn't an issue. If you used the higher limit to lock out the extra clicks and tried to force a shift past the limit the internals would explode.

i've used all the variations of Sram Red over the years, and now have on my stigmata the following:
rival 11 hydro shifters (couldn't justify an upgrade on these as they are solid)
red yaw front der - set it up according to the instructions, and it has been flawless
red rear der - again, no issues
rival hydro brakes - bled the brakes once (because i did a stupid thing) when i got the bike (3 years ago), have not bled them since, and have had no issues with them.

in my experience with Sram, following the directions when setting up the components, and using yokozuna reaction housing for the shifters have been critical to getting a system that works as well as i want. I am SOOOOPER fussy about how my drivetrain shifts, and how the braking works, and have always been able to get the Sram components to work as I wanted, with minimal effort.

Yeah, you posted that because you are the one stirring up the ****, way to predict it. I get so sick and tired on this forum of people posting that "popcorn man" as the second post to ANY question. In your opinion, any thread will become a "popcorn thread" because any thread will be either about groupsets, or framesets, or wheelsets.. Why do you bother coming here at all then?

On Topic:

I personally have a Sram Force groupset with Sram Rival shifters and breaks. I think it works really well, and I like the 1 lever "doubletap" shifting system and the size of the hoods better than the Shimano shifters, once you get used to it. I also own a bike with Campagnolo Chorus groupset, which has the thumb activated downshifters. This is less finicky for upshifting than the Sram, but also looks less "clean" on the bike. If I had to choose, I'd probably go with the Campagnolo on my next bike in terms of shifting. Shimano I personally don't like because their hoods are so large, but a lot of people really like them.

I do have to concede the front derailleur was finicky to set up right on my Sram Force. But once my LBS set it up correctly, front shifting has been good.

Sram in my experience has lower weights on their mechanical groupsets for less money than Shimano. That is the conclusion I came to when researching their groupsets in the past. (Force is comparable to Ultegra in price, but lighter; Same for Sram Red vs Dura Ace).
This is what I found on Bikeradar:

• Shimano R9100 mechanical group - 2,007g - $2,029 / £N/A
• SRAM Red 22 mechanical group - 1,747g - $1,944 / £1,579

In my opinion, which groupset you go with is a matter of personal preference. Sram, Shimano and Campagnolo all make really good components. For mechanical, the type of shifters differs between all three brands, and everyone has a personal preference. I would try them and see which one you prefer.

I have no experience with electronic groupsets, but for me personally I don't want them because they are heavier, and just one more battery in my life to keep charged. I am sure the shifting is miraculous on electronic, but I prefer the simplicity of mechanical, which I could adjust on the side of the road if anything goes wrong.