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Light Bicycle Wheels

Old 03-21-19, 09:28 AM
  #226  
Rides4Beer
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
On a previous bike I had 38mm Workswell CF wheels with 291/482 SB-SL hubs, and a Powertap rear wheel (with DT internals). The 18t engagement felt really odd to me, so I upgraded to the 54t gear. Problem solved, but it did change the sound. It's not any louder, but the pitch is much higher.
Any drag or durability issues with the 54t? I can imagine that the quicker engagement is especially helpful when climbing. I didn't think about it until just now, but it is annoying when you have to shift on a climb and lose momentum because of that hesitation in engagement, would def be nice on the steeper climbs around here.
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Old 03-21-19, 09:50 AM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Any drag or durability issues with the 54t? I can imagine that the quicker engagement is especially helpful when climbing. I didn't think about it until just now, but it is annoying when you have to shift on a climb and lose momentum because of that hesitation in engagement, would def be nice on the steeper climbs around here.
I didn't notice any difference in drag while riding, but on the stand there was a slight difference. Durability was never an issue for me, but the bike was stolen after 10k miles on that wheelset.

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Old 03-21-19, 10:06 AM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Any drag or durability issues with the 54t? I can imagine that the quicker engagement is especially helpful when climbing. I didn't think about it until just now, but it is annoying when you have to shift on a climb and lose momentum because of that hesitation in engagement, would def be nice on the steeper climbs around here.
You can drive yourself nuts or psych yourself out with worrying about POE.

It only really matters when you stop pedaling and resume...on an MTB with varied terrain this could be a big thing. On a road bike with more or less steady-state pedaling it isn't, except sprinting.....or excepting the pedal-coast-pedal-coast riding population of which there are many out there.

The coolest class of hubs are instant-engagement...namely sprag clutches. No POE, just instant engagement--and dead silent--which today is just OnyxRP, and they're very nice hubs...LB USA even offers them for a relative steal.



Tech - Onyx Racing Products



https://www.fanatikbike.com/blogs/en...mtb-hub-review
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Old 03-21-19, 10:09 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I've had 2 sets of Novatec 291/482 hubs, and always got 10k miles out of the bearings, but mine did not have cheapo Chinese OEM bearings. Bearing quality makes a huge difference in Novatec hubs.
Yes, I think so too. So, do we know what bearings come with what LB supplies?
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Old 03-21-19, 10:10 AM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
You can drive yourself nuts or psych yourself out with worrying about POE.

It only really matters when you stop pedaling and resume...on an MTB with varied terrain this could be a big thing. On a road bike with more or less steady-state pedaling it isn't, except sprinting.....or excepting the pedal-coast-pedal-coast riding population of which there are many out there.

The coolest class of hubs are instant-engagement...namely sprag clutches. No POE, just instant engagement--and dead silent--which today is just OnyxRP, and they're very nice hubs...LB USA even offers them for a relative steal.

Cool hubs, if weight is of no concern.
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Old 03-21-19, 10:11 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Yes, I think so too. So, do we know what bearings come with what LB supplies?
From the experience that @Rides4Beer had, I'd guess they aren't very good quality bearings.
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Old 03-21-19, 10:13 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
From the experience that @Rides4Beer had, I'd guess they aren't very good quality bearings.
Yup. On another note, how does one know that the bearings are shot? Lateral play? Noise?
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Old 03-21-19, 10:49 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Yup. On another note, how does one know that the bearings are shot? Lateral play? Noise?
I first noticed the sound while riding over bumps(caused by lateral play). I'm sure there was some roughness in the bearings first, but I never checked for it before noticing the sound.
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Old 03-21-19, 10:58 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I didn't notice any difference in drag while riding, but on the stand there was a slight difference. Durability was never an issue for me, but the bike was stolen after 10k miles on that wheelset.
That's what I figured, real world with a rider's weight on the bike, prob not any noticeable drag. That really sucks that your bike was stolen, but 10k miles with no issues is good.


Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
You can drive yourself nuts or psych yourself out with worrying about POE.

It only really matters when you stop pedaling and resume...on an MTB with varied terrain this could be a big thing. On a road bike with more or less steady-state pedaling it isn't, except sprinting.....or excepting the pedal-coast-pedal-coast riding population of which there are many out there.

The coolest class of hubs are instant-engagement...namely sprag clutches. No POE, just instant engagement--and dead silent--which today is just OnyxRP, and they're very nice hubs...LB USA even offers them for a relative steal.
The engagement on climbs is probably nice. I'm pretty steady state rider when solo, but in a group there's a fair amount of coasting. Like I said above, I haven't had any complaints with 27t, but sometimes you don't know what you don't know until you try it. Those Onyx hubs are def nice.


Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Yup. On another note, how does one know that the bearings are shot? Lateral play? Noise?
For me there was noise (off and on, not constant, I'm guessing it would have gotten worse had I kept riding on them), and I could feel an increase in pedaling effort. I'm very familiar with what certain sections of my regular ride should feel like and what kind of speed I should be able to carry, and I was going slower with more effort. Then I put my alloys back on and it was a night and day difference on my ride the next day, which really told me something was up.
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Old 03-21-19, 04:08 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I messaged LB with a couple weenie questions: a) Are the internal nipples easy to work with (besides having to take off the tire and tape)? and b) Can the wheel be made lighter and more compliant for a light rider? Here's the response:
All right. Got to talk to the global team. Turns out that they really just meant it's slightly more difficult to build the wheel (since you can't use a normal spoke driver or wrench) and the tire/tape stripping is what really gets you. I plan on using veloplugs and tubed tires with this wheel initially to make sure the wheelbuild is stable, before setting up tubeless tape/sealant/tire.

I got a few photos for good measure:



PS: Does anyone know how to resize images? Ugh.

Anyway, nothing seems out of the ordinary for this design.

Apparently, LB can/does use Sapim "upside down" inverted nipples. The reasons I want those are 1) they're rounded and polished on the part that touches the rim and 2) they can tolerate some misalignment between the eyelet and the angle of spoke entry. This should theoretically reduce the amount of effort required to turn the nipple at a given tension and maybe even reduce the odds of a spoke unwinding or breaking (maybe). The nipple shown seems to be a regular polyax nipple since internal nipples are uncolored - which means if you don't ask, LB might use a regular polyax nipple upside down.

Lastly, the global team confirmed that they don't have a flyweight layup or anything. They can "try" to give me a lighter example, but that will most likely be within the 15 gram tolerance.

I'm pretty sold on these, so I'll probably be ordering these/posting about them in the next couple weeks.

EDIT: They also mentioned something about going with "double box" nipples - I assume they meant "double square": https://www.asterion-wheels.com/en/a...le-square.html
Essentially this is a normal nipple that can be tightened with a square driver. I have no idea why this was recommended before/in lieu of the inverted nipple. Oh well.

Double edit:

Last edited by smashndash; 03-21-19 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 03-21-19, 06:56 PM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
Yup. On another note, how does one know that the bearings are shot? Lateral play? Noise?
feel the bearing with you hand, if it does not spin smoothly and you feel notching sensation, the bearing is gone
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Old 03-22-19, 03:11 AM
  #237  
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So, got a mail from LB saying that they have run out of the Pillar brass nipples, and whether they can use Sapim instead. They said that matching nipples and spokes would be better, and my build has the Pillar spokes. Will it really be an issue to use Sapim nipples with Pillar spokes?

Last edited by deepakvrao; 03-22-19 at 03:30 AM.
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Old 03-22-19, 07:31 AM
  #238  
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November Bicycles has a new blog post on difficult times for wheel builders. They mention Light Bicycles:
My crystal ball says that some big brands are going falter and maybe fall. The casual observer would put Enve as highest risk for this, but look - how much share can the Far Sports and Light Bicycles of the world gain without Zipp and DT and Reynolds et al feeling the pinch?
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Old 03-22-19, 10:10 AM
  #239  
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let's face it, wheel building is not an art like those wheelbuilders wants you to believe, it is very straight forward and anyone with patience and a tension meter can build a good set of wheel. With easier access to quality parts, it makes no sense to spend more the same product. My DT350 CX-Ray HSon Hydra cost less than $450, to get similar wheel form November would cost me $800+
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Old 03-22-19, 10:14 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by GailT View Post
November Bicycles has a new blog post on difficult times for wheel builders. They mention Light Bicycles:

...Zipp being a division of SRAM for 10 years now, they're probably not in near as had a shape as ENVE
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Old 03-22-19, 10:35 AM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
...
The conventional spoke/nipple shown on the right has a spoke 2mm too short, Yes it will break as shown. A longer spoke that comes flush with the top won't break nipples. (They show spoke threading too short to do that. Not an issue with the spokes I buy. Usually DT.)

Ben
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Old 03-22-19, 10:49 AM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
PS: Does anyone know how to resize images? Ugh.
​​​​​​If you don't already have an image editing progress, go to getpaint.net and install the software. Open a picture (on your computer), go to the image menu, select resize. Something like 900 px wide is good. Save as a copy, don't overwrite the original. Upload the smaller one not the big one.

It sounds like more work than it actually is.
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Old 03-23-19, 03:10 AM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by Chi_Z View Post
feel the bearing with you hand, if it does not spin smoothly and you feel notching sensation, the bearing is gone
You mean after you open the hub, and check the bearings, or rotate the wheel itself?
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Old 03-23-19, 12:26 PM
  #244  
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In regards to the spoke nipple comment I agree. The quad drives and / or the Squorx nipples work very well and using the driver while torquing the nipples from the rim outside while building is great. Also does not mar up the nipple and allows tensioning without fear or any nipple rounding.
BTW. Have built many wheels using the LB rims. They build up really easily and have worked well for my needs both mtn and road in varying depths.
I usually build w C-Xrays and Squorx nipples. Bladed spokes also make builing easier as you hold the blade to ensure zero spoke wind up. I build with round too sometimes, but bladed slightly easier.
I splurge on good hubs as they are the heart of a good wheel. I enjoy quality trouble free hubs. Have to pay the piper somewhere.
Have dealt with wheels from folks who have lower end hubs. Some issues I have dealt with are bad bearings, even ruined bearing bores as well as incorrect dimensions causing bearing crush when wheel is tightened in frame. Not seen these issues on higher quality hubs.
Good luck.
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Old 03-25-19, 04:13 PM
  #245  
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People who ordered from LB, did you ask for spare spokes? Also, if you ordered from the global site and went over $800, did you have to pay customs duty? Finally, I see they say they're celebrating their 8th anniversary, but are wheelsets on sale or just rims?
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Old 03-26-19, 08:14 AM
  #246  
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I have similar concerns as others have noted when it comes to the almost extreme value of this brand. Frankly, I'm looking to purchase a carbon, deep-section, wheel-set in the area of 45-55mm depth. My concern is, I was initially planning on purchasing the Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5 TLR Disc Road Wheelset for around $1,300, but a similar wheelset from LB is only around $650? Not to mention it's considerably lighter, LB's coming in at 1550g for 55mm depth and Trek coming in at 1,720g for a lesser, 50mm depth.

Yes, I know it's a weird concern that the price and weight is too low, but normally it's a situation of light/aero, quality, $$, pick 2.
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Old 03-26-19, 09:47 AM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by firebird854 View Post
I have similar concerns as others have noted when it comes to the almost extreme value of this brand. Frankly, I'm looking to purchase a carbon, deep-section, wheel-set in the area of 45-55mm depth. My concern is, I was initially planning on purchasing the Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5 TLR Disc Road Wheelset for around $1,300, but a similar wheelset from LB is only around $650? Not to mention it's considerably lighter, LB's coming in at 1550g for 55mm depth and Trek coming in at 1,720g for a lesser, 50mm depth.

Yes, I know it's a weird concern that the price and weight is too low, but normally it's a situation of light/aero, quality, $$, pick 2.
The v-shaped 35/45/55mm hoops have been out for about a year now, and I haven't been able to find anything but very positive reviews on forums/blogs(and I searched for months). If you see something negative written about them, please share it.

There is a 5 year old review of some of their mountain rims that is somewhat negative, but most of it was caused by the reviewer.
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Old 03-26-19, 09:49 AM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
People who ordered from LB, did you ask for spare spokes?
I asked for an extra of each spoke length used, and they sent 1 of each(with nipple) for no charge.
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Old 03-26-19, 11:56 AM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by firebird854 View Post
I have similar concerns as others have noted when it comes to the almost extreme value of this brand. Frankly, I'm looking to purchase a carbon, deep-section, wheel-set in the area of 45-55mm depth. My concern is, I was initially planning on purchasing the Bontrager Aeolus Pro 5 TLR Disc Road Wheelset for around $1,300, but a similar wheelset from LB is only around $650? Not to mention it's considerably lighter, LB's coming in at 1550g for 55mm depth and Trek coming in at 1,720g for a lesser, 50mm depth.

Yes, I know it's a weird concern that the price and weight is too low, but normally it's a situation of light/aero, quality, $$, pick 2.
I don't think that the disparity is much of a red flag in an of itself. You're comparing a large brand with R&D, marketing and distribution/sales support vs a company that has minimal marketing, no middleman, no B&M presence and something like a month lead time. Seems like a fair trade to me, it's just up to the individual to decide where they find value.
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Old 03-27-19, 07:29 AM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I don't think that the disparity is much of a red flag in an of itself. You're comparing a large brand with R&D, marketing and distribution/sales support vs a company that has minimal marketing, no middleman, no B&M presence and something like a month lead time. Seems like a fair trade to me, it's just up to the individual to decide where they find value.
very succinctly put. Very few people consider the cost to cash flow of carrying so much inventory and distributing it (generally with 60-90 day terms) to so many distribution points like a large brand must do. The carrying costs especially when combined with every product that a company like Trek manufactures is huge.
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