maartendc

Exactly, that is what I was getting at.

To me, "too cheap to be true" would be a full deep-section carbon fiber wheelset for $200 on Ebay from a Chinese Ebay seller that ships straight from Taiwan or Hong Kong. (which there are a lot of, just search on Ebay for Carbon Fiber wheelset and sort by lowest price).

At the prices Light Bicycle are charging, I can believe they provide a quality product, and the price difference really is in the marketing and "cutting out the middle man". The fact that they have been around for almost a decade, without much if any negative press to speak of, says something too. I doubt many Ebay sellers have been around for that long.

Rides4Beer

Maybe not inferior, but probably not that much more exceptional either. It's the same reason people pay more for a Lexus over a Toyota, the status and name, even though they're basically the same car. Past a certain point, you're not paying for quality anymore, you're paying for exclusivity.

From what I've seen others post about Zipp, Enve and other big names, LB quality is on par if not better, imo. My wheels are absolutely flawless, I've seen multiple threads about QC issues and defects in "big name" wheelsets. As far as communication and support, communication during my build/wait was fantastic. They offer a three year warranty, and while I would have to wait for a replacement to get shipped to me, that's a price I was willing to pay to save money and buy direct.

Chi_Z

since we are talking about good value wheelsets, just found this on Merlin, $606 for DT240s CL and under 1500g, the hubs alone would cost over $400 and the DT Aerolite is as good as CX-ray if not better. Only downside is the 24h

noodle soup

Those aren't DT240s hubs, unless DT made some major changes to their hubs.

surak

Out of curiosity, was his dislike the specific alloy nipples used, or the fact that they were alloy and not brass? Does LB have a brass option? Just wondering if going alloy instead of brass means avoiding rain at all costs (i.e., half the year in the PNW), or expecting to replace them every couple years.

Rides4Beer

Brass is an option. But I've also read that the treated Sapim alloy nipples are not as prone to corrosion and should be trouble free.

maartendc

I can tell you that alloy nipples are way softer too, so if your wheel requires frequent truing, they get deformed.

LB does have a brass option.

Marcus_Ti

He's a cross racer, and that is hell on equipment....also that was 5 years ago. IIRC the Sapim spokes/nips they use now are better treated. LB offers brass, but IIRC only on direct-from-china orders, not their US where house. At least that was the case back in December.


On another note. Rode to/from work yesterday in our pre-bomb-cyclone weather....46mm rims are nowhere near as reactive to crosswinds as I thought.

Seattle Forrest

The Enve 4.5 ARs, or prototype versions of them, spent hundreds of hours in a wind tunnel on half a dozen different bikes. The LB ones didn't. That's not important to 99% of the world's cyclists, but it's an expensive difference. It's important to enough people (triathletes, racers) to justify the price, and gives them a boutique reputation that entices a smaller number of cyclists to buy them. Also they have some cool tech, and fantastic service.

I'm not trying to sell you Enve wheels, I'm trying to shed light on the issue.

Seattle Forrest

You're doing a good job of making these sound really attractive.

For no good reason, I'd like another set of carbon hoops. I like the way shallower ones look. Sounds like if I don't want to spend $$$ Light Bicycle should be at the top of my list.

Marcus_Ti

So small, as it turns out, ENVE hasn't been making money for a while and AMER Sports is unloading them along with Mavic.

Chi_Z

DT redesigned the hubs for their own branded wheelset, i think they look sexy, too bad not for sale

noodle soup

I haven’t seen that, but I’d love to read more about it.

Linky?

Chi_Z

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/...-1400/er-1400/

look at the picture, DT says the hub is 240, but that looks nothing like a 240, looks like they all share the same freehub and end caps

noodle soup

I saw that after your post, but haven't seen anything else about the update.

The price leads me to believe that these are the hubs that DT has used for their other lower-end wheelsets. They aren't bad, but they are completely different than 350/240/180 series hubs.

noodle soup

This is true. but there's nothing that's proprietary about Enve's rim shape(like Zipp hoops), so the shape is easy to copy. Rim strength and weight can be determined using FEA. The framebuilder I know does this for his framesets, and it doesn't cost a fortune.

noodle soup

I'm just explaining why I made the purchase of 56mm Light Bicycle wheels.

On a side note, I'm already regretting my hub choice. I know DT350s hubs are better than the Novatec hubs I chose for the wheelset. I wonder if they'll let me change it at this point.


You need a good reason to buy a new wheelset?

noodle soup

I just sent LB an email asking if I could make a change in my wheelset.

I suspect they'll respond at about 11:30 pm Pacific time.

Sy Reene

I'm looking at these LB wheels as well. I have rim brakes though, and am wondering if better off with the LB or the TSRs.. both (in my mind) are a gamble due to very little real long-term (or even short-term) review availability.
Specifically.. debating between these 2 products.. basically at the moment is a CF vs Alloy debate for me.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/U-shape...ompatible.html
vs
https://www.bike24.com/p2306399.html?q=tune+tsr

Seattle Forrest

Right. And if they messed up copying the shape, it will take you 2 or 3 seconds longer to ride 40 km. It's not a lose your teeth kind of thing.

The point is it's not a red flag that their specs come very close to big names at a fraction of the cost. That's not setting you up to be defrauded, it's how the economics works.

deepakvrao

I hope.

deepakvrao

Weren't they supposed to have shipped on Wednesday? What is it going to add to the cost if they allow a change? And weight?

Rides4Beer

Short term rim braking review is very positive! I have direct mount Ultegra brakes, using Swissstop Black Prince pads with the grooved graphene brake surface on my LB 46mm wheels, and the braking has been great. I have about 350 miles and 25,000ft of climbing on them so far, part of that was a century with the last 30 miles in pouring rain, and have had no issues. I weigh 83kg, and like fast descents, and have had no worries so far with stopping. I checked the brake tracks after hard braking on a long descent at 40mph and they were barely warm. These are my first carbon wheels, so I was a little concerned, but I have full confidence in them so far. They also make a pleasant sound when braking, noticeable, but not a screech.

noodle soup

I'm not sure why they weren't finished, but I'm glad for the delay.

the DT 350 hub upgrade costs $62, and adds 67g. This makes the projected weight 1550g

maartendc

True, it is a question of carbon versus alloy rims, but also a question of going with a less common hub design from Tune themselves, rather than being able to choose for Bitex, Novatec, DT Swiss 350 or 240. These are much more known quantities, and you know what kind of hub quality you can expect. With limited reviews on the Tune wheels, the hub would concern me more than the rims. From a quick Google search, the Mig 170 and Mag 170 hubs are designed to be very light, but perhaps not as durable.

Also, making an alloy rim THAT light, at 35mm cross section, probably means it is not exactly what is referred to as "bomb proof". It would most likely require trueing the wheel more often if you ride on rough roads. Not sure. Kind of like the really light Kinlin 200 or 300 rims you can get on Prowheelbuilder and other custom building online stores: they are very light alloy rims, but are known to be a bit less durable than heavier versions. I think that is just the way it is: the lighter an alloy rim is, the less rigid it is.

The fact of the matter is, the Tune TSR 35 were released only in December of 2018, and it is a more niche brand, so it is logical that there would not be many / any reviews. Buying these wheels probably makes you a bit of a guinnea pig. Light Bicycle's rims have been around for longer than that.

I would trust German engineering more than Chinese engineering any day, but you cannot escape the fact that a lightweight alloy wheel is not going to be as "bullet proof" as a heavy alloy wheel. Like Others had said, it is probably a good wheelset for good weather and roads. A bit of a "race day" wheelset I guess?