Invasion of the E-bikes!
#176
Senior Member
Lots of choices out there for hub motor folding ebikes in the $1000 to $1500 range - Chinese electrical components, 7 speed, racks, lights, etc.
The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. Batteries are in the seat tube. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/
If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.
The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. Batteries are in the seat tube. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/
If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.
BUT... I want to have a low enough gear to crank up hills loaded if need be. My current folder does not, and it has contributed to foot problems (I figured I'd just walk the bike up steeps, cross-training, but it caused plantar fasciitis). I bought a clamp adapter to mount a front braze-on derailleur to the seat tube (and then a double or triple crank) as my oversize seat tube will not accommodate a clamp derailleur. On the design above, not a chance. WAY too big, and the rear gusset prevents a 360 degree clamp. Many Dahons with no front derailleur are coming now with a braze-on mount, just in case it is needed. Costs a buck at the factory. With a front derailleur mount, a double or triple crank with aluminum rings, a better front rack designed for panniers, and retrofitted for better pedals (those ones wear out quick), at that price, I might be sold. But for any bike over $1000, I expect a superb frame and fork warranty. Like life, or at least 20 years.
EDIT: They show a bike in red, but only sell it in black or gray. First red flag.
Last edited by Duragrouch; 10-14-19 at 08:30 PM.
#177
Kit doesn't match
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#178
Kit doesn't match
I like having a reason to chase them -- it always encourages me to go harder than I was before I saw them. Taking up a chase after someone I don't know on an analog bike seems lame, but I have no reservations chasing after e-bikes.
Plus, it comes with a ready excuse if i can't quite overtake them.
Plus, it comes with a ready excuse if i can't quite overtake them.
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#179
Senior Member
How much exercise you get is determined by a number of factors. If I try to keep up with the unplugged guys who like to run 20mph, then I get a lot of exercise because my mountain bike motor phases out between 19 and 20. I'll go plenty of stretches at close to or over 20, which leaves me unplugged pushing hard on a plus size tire bike. When I read some of these posts it makes me wonder if these guys are confused about why people play tennis, golf, or go hiking in the woods. Who should want to do anything except ride an unplugged bike?
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#180
Senior Member
Being disabled I KNOW an e-bike is in my future. I did ride one once on our bi-weekly rides and it was like turning back the clock. I was 10 again and bike riding was easy. Hills were no problem, and the same with the stiff wind we were riding into. My only complaint when I rode one with the group is that I will have to wear more clothes as I got chilled with my normal bike riding attire. LOL
With my friend being a bike store owner he gets to try all sorts of bikes and the first e-bike he got in I didn't care for, the pedal assist is great but it was almost whiplash time when it kicked in (not really but it was surprising) But the latest one he has in the shop now only helps a little bit, (you can change that. ) And it allowed you to get a workout without stressing out the knee joints or pushing too hard. Hey at 60+ with worn out knees and back a bit of help is needed at times.
And I believe my bike probably does weigh about 50 lbs already... It does take 2 to lift it into the stand. But its the most comfy bike I have ever ridden. I keep it inside the house and have to lift it up 2 steps, I do it one end at a time. Good arm work. LOL While they do make them as Electric bikes I really like the idea of just adding a wheel and only using the power option up hills and when its super windy. I have noticed the battery keeps getting smaller and lighter-and going further.
With my friend being a bike store owner he gets to try all sorts of bikes and the first e-bike he got in I didn't care for, the pedal assist is great but it was almost whiplash time when it kicked in (not really but it was surprising) But the latest one he has in the shop now only helps a little bit, (you can change that. ) And it allowed you to get a workout without stressing out the knee joints or pushing too hard. Hey at 60+ with worn out knees and back a bit of help is needed at times.
And I believe my bike probably does weigh about 50 lbs already... It does take 2 to lift it into the stand. But its the most comfy bike I have ever ridden. I keep it inside the house and have to lift it up 2 steps, I do it one end at a time. Good arm work. LOL While they do make them as Electric bikes I really like the idea of just adding a wheel and only using the power option up hills and when its super windy. I have noticed the battery keeps getting smaller and lighter-and going further.
#181
Senior Member
Let's be consistent with your logic. You don't ride a bicycle. You ride a Pedalcycle.
#182
Senior Member
'Court' at Electric Bike Review is a good source for info. on ebikes. https://electricbikereview.com/
#183
Senior Member
If you need torque for a loaded bike on hills, then a mid motor may be better for you - hub motors can't supply as much torque. Some mid motors come with a 'normal' sized chain ring (around 40T) - you could probably switch to a smaller ring but you may not need to once you experience the uphill capability. High-torque mid motors (Bosch, for example) use a 20T ring with a 2.5x reduction gear - more torque but more friction if you ever have to pedal it without motor assist - and a faster burn rate on the battery.
'Court' at Electric Bike Review is a good source for info. on ebikes. https://electricbikereview.com/
'Court' at Electric Bike Review is a good source for info. on ebikes. https://electricbikereview.com/
#184
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I live in Seattle also, and for many it is the only reasonable way to get to work if your job is downtown. I have a friend that works at Facebook downtown but lives in White Center, which I think is a 10 mile distance. It would take him over forty minutes to drive not including finding parking and the bus system even longer. He puts his bike on high and hits the door to his office in around 35 minutes.
#185
Member
Funny experience this weekend. In our area, I'm not sure any of us had ever seen an e-bike. But this weekend, a bunch of us traveled to a very nice organized ride through the Sequatchie Valley of Tennessee. GREAT place to ride.
One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)
Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.
Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)
Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.
Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
Clearly the person in the story has ego issues or he would of been happy when he saw they were ebikes. I have owned an ebike for two years now and have gone on many group rides. Not with the A group. But I never wanted to ride with that group anyways. I live in Austin Texas and there are still many Lance want to be's here. If it makes them happy to ride like that they should go for.
The big issue I see in a lot of the reply's in this thread is they have no clue what a high-end ebike really is and what it can do.
First there are two main kinds of ebikes. Hub drives and torque sensing mid-drive. I own a torque sensing mid-drive.
You can get the same work out on a(some) torque sensing mid-drive as any other bike on the planet. I could plug it into a computer and set it where at a given power setting it was outputting just like any analog bike. That means if you have to use 250w to the ride at 20mph on the flat. I could set that it would take me 250w to ride the same 20mph on the flat.
But the choice would be up to me and that is the biggest difference between and analog and a torque sensing mid-drive. Choice. But a lot of people who have never ridden one don't understand that.
Over 90% of people who bad mouth ebikes are Guys over 40 who wear lycra. Never has a woman ever said a negative thing about my ebike to me nor has anyone under 40.
90% of those have never ridden an ebike nor do they really understand how they even work.
Analog bikes are like flip phones. They do only one thing. Ebike are like smart phones and can be set to do many things. First of all the analog bikes we see these days are part of the evolution of bikes. Ebikes are just the next step on that same path. 10yrs from now most people will be ridding one. Sure there will still be some dinosaurs riding analogs. But there will only be a few of them left. It is already happening in the mountain bike world. EMTB are taking over.
I ride and full suspension dual sport ebike that can keep up with any group of analog road bikes( for that matter I could pass any group if I wanted) one day and ride up and down the side of a mountain the next day if I wanted.
Just so some of you know. If your over 40 and wear lycra and tell someone on an ebike who is not in a race that they are cheating. You have an ego issue and you should take a good look in the mirror.
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#186
Senior Member
It's like saying you can't go to a motorcycle track day or auto track day unless everyone has equal horsepower devices.
The cyclists who complain about an ebike beating them would be like a guy in a Mini getting beat by a Ferrari.
#187
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I don't want to sound like a jerk by calling you out on this, but if your full-squish ebike can not only keep up with, but pass (drop?), a fast group ride at full gas...color me impressed. Unless you've modified the gearing on your MTB, your motor would be propelling you way above what your cadence could reasonably handle. I only know of one full suspension ebike that would be able to do such a thing through a reduction gear and it's a far cry from being called a "bicycle". Your aerodynamics and tire rolling resistance alone would be a nearly 250W disadvantage around 28 mph, and it goes up drastically from there.
#188
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So the arms race is in high gear now. That is scary. It is evolving faster than I thought it would. How long before our MUPs, bike trails/lanes turn into wastelands terrorized by outlaw E-biker gangs? If I was one of those teenagers/penny pinchers commuting on a little gas scooter I would be very afraid. Those scooters top out around 35 on the flats. Imagine slogging along minding your business when a group of E Hells Angels rolls up and encircles you. Think about the carnage that will ensue. We're talking Toe Cutter and Lord Humungous type of carnage. Too much for me. I think I am going to sell all of my bikes and get a Peloton.
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#189
Senior Member
So it finally happened to me yesterday on our regular Sunday morning ride....the 86 year old (true!) guy on his recumbent e-trike blew right past and left me and a few others IN THE DUST!
OHHHH THE OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there he sat smugly eating his bagel and drinking his coffee when the rest of us dragged our slow, analog a**es into the parking lot and dismounted.
I was so annoyed that I almost couldn't eat my egg and cheddar on sesame - but I really like egg and cheddar on sesame - SO I DID!!! THERE!
OHHHH THE OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there he sat smugly eating his bagel and drinking his coffee when the rest of us dragged our slow, analog a**es into the parking lot and dismounted.
I was so annoyed that I almost couldn't eat my egg and cheddar on sesame - but I really like egg and cheddar on sesame - SO I DID!!! THERE!
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#190
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So it finally happened to me yesterday on our regular Sunday morning ride....the 86 year old (true!) guy on his recumbent e-trike blew right past and left me and a few others IN THE DUST!
OHHHH THE OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there he sat smugly eating his bagel and drinking his coffee when the rest of us dragged our slow, analog a**es into the parking lot and dismounted.
I was so annoyed that I almost couldn't eat my egg and cheddar on sesame - but I really like egg and cheddar on sesame - SO I DID!!! THERE!
OHHHH THE OUTRAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And there he sat smugly eating his bagel and drinking his coffee when the rest of us dragged our slow, analog a**es into the parking lot and dismounted.
I was so annoyed that I almost couldn't eat my egg and cheddar on sesame - but I really like egg and cheddar on sesame - SO I DID!!! THERE!
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#192
Registered User
Also if I had anything resembling a hot take, it's that while ebikes seem cool, I don't quite get the point of the ones made to look exactly like road bikes. Seems weirdly like if you designed a car but made it look as much like a horse carriage as possible, or something (in other words, it's pretty unlikely that the "ideal" design for an e-bike is to make it look as much like another type of bicycle as possible)
Seems the theory was not to scare the horses on the roads.
So the e-bikes keep their pedals to not attract legal attention. (i.e. scare pedestrians/cyclists)
Just as early gasoline technology let go of crank pedals, the now intense development of battery-electric technology will make human input superfluous.
And there will still be bicycles and hybrids and motorcycles of all sizes - because they're all fun. And kids of all ages will participate.
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#193
Senior Member
100%. Today’s ebikes debate is the disc brake debate of five years ago. It’s happening no matter how much some people wail about it. In five years half of “roadies” will be riding them and loving it.
#194
Member
I don't want to sound like a jerk by calling you out on this, but if your full-squish ebike can not only keep up with, but pass (drop?), a fast group ride at full gas...color me impressed. Unless you've modified the gearing on your MTB, your motor would be propelling you way above what your cadence could reasonably handle. I only know of one full suspension ebike that would be able to do such a thing through a reduction gear and it's a far cry from being called a "bicycle". Your aerodynamics and tire rolling resistance alone would be a nearly 250W disadvantage around 28 mph, and it goes up drastically from there.
I ride a dual sport ultra from M2S bikes.It is the top of the line ebike coming out of the Asian market right now. It has a 750w Banfang Ultra mid-drive motor and it can do 35+ if I want it to on the flat. I can blow by any analog bike away. It is the most powerful legal ebike in the US right now. But that does not mean I ride it at full power all the time. I ride it at the speed limit of the MUP or streets I am on. I am 59yrs old and lost to back of my kneecap in a motorcycle wreck in my teens and also have had 2 heart attacks. I had to give up any kind of real cycling a long time ago. Until I bought my ebike and it has changed my life! Before I could only ride my analog bike a few blocks away from my house and only on the flat. Now I can ride anywhere I want for as long as I want. I have 1200 miles on it in the last 15 months. I can dial in the workout as hard as I can without worrying if I am going to go over do it.One day I did over do it. I was pushing as hard as I could. It was 107f and I came up to a long light. While I was standing there I over heated from standing still. A wave of baddest can over me. I rode for the next few minutes with just the thumb throttle and let the wind pass over me. Then I started to feel better and I rode another ten miles in peddle asset. I ride farther and I ride for a much longer time on my ebike then my analog. Just like all the studies have shown. Like it or not. Ebikes are the future of cycling.
#195
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I think there is some misunderstanding indicated with a few comments. "Good" e-bikes are, as mentioned above, torque sensing. At least with these your effort doesn't just click on the motor. It's proportional. If you put out 50 watts and the motor does the same, the motor won't put out 100 watts unless you do too. Speed on the flats and on hills depends on wattage and weight. It seems like if you rode with someone of the same weight that wasn't as strong they could set an assist level so that you both had the same perceived effort and speed on every grade.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, because I don't actually know if this is exactly how it works - but it would be nice. On the other hand, the e-bike riders always just hit turbo on the hills.
I've read that the places were lots of people people commute on bikes are of course in other countries, but more interestingly, are also flat. E-bikes might be best at getting people in hillier places to ride.
I have a few friends who are thinking of going on a bike tour in Europe someplace. Based on past experience, once one of them decided to rent an e-bike, essentially everyone else fell in line. Trying to go old school with a bunch of e-bike riders is a good way to not enjoy your trip.
Along the same lines, when I started back packing many years ago I was bugged by the horse back riders. I guess it always is a little irritating when you're working hard and it's obvious there's an easier way.
Correct me if I'm wrong though, because I don't actually know if this is exactly how it works - but it would be nice. On the other hand, the e-bike riders always just hit turbo on the hills.
I've read that the places were lots of people people commute on bikes are of course in other countries, but more interestingly, are also flat. E-bikes might be best at getting people in hillier places to ride.
I have a few friends who are thinking of going on a bike tour in Europe someplace. Based on past experience, once one of them decided to rent an e-bike, essentially everyone else fell in line. Trying to go old school with a bunch of e-bike riders is a good way to not enjoy your trip.
Along the same lines, when I started back packing many years ago I was bugged by the horse back riders. I guess it always is a little irritating when you're working hard and it's obvious there's an easier way.
#196
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I would not compare riding a bike with riding an e-bike for the most part. They are two different things (mostly).
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#197
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With all due respect ... I really don't see the comparison between a new type of brake technology, and adding an electric motor to eliminate pedalling (which is the one essential hallmark of riding a bike).
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#198
I ride to clear my mind
I did century a few weeks ago and a guy on a e bike flattened us in the climbs. I was totally sold. Those things rock. I rode a hybrid a few years ago that did not have assist cut out at 15mph and even though you still have to pedal the cadence vs speed was scary and exciting all at the same time.
#199
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I had no idea so many of you were struggling to find a way to make this an easy sport.
Last edited by Zaskar; 10-15-19 at 06:12 AM.
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