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Tubeless or not?

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Tubeless or not?

Old 04-21-20, 01:56 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by acole3 View Post
I'm not seeing the link to the Merlin site for the Specialized Turbo RapidAir tires for $35.
Context. He's talking about the Schwalbe.
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Old 04-21-20, 02:56 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I was able to squeeze most of the watery, old sealant out of my front tire. Leaving the valve core out of the stem overnight took care of the rest, so no need for me to break the bead to clean it out this time around (I want to get my new Schwalbe Pro1 Addix installed in the next few weeks, anyway, so I'll have the opportunity to swap stems at that time).

Even though the insertion tube doesn't fit all the way in to my current stems, I can already tell that the sealant syringe will be a welcomed addition and $12 well spent. It takes the guesswork out of dosing, it's easy and it's relatively clean. I did have one instance where I hit some resistance when injecting - rather than push harder, I pulled back on the plunger and tried again and I got smooth sailing in return. After filling the tires, I flushed the tubes/syringe a few times with some warm water and took it apart to let it dry. Good stuff.
What tubeless tires are you running now? The GP 5000s they put on my R3 when shipped came off the bead and I somehow managed to reseat them with a regular track pump.

just curious how much wheels play into that
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Old 04-21-20, 03:50 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by phrantic09 View Post
What tubeless tires are you running now? The GP 5000s they put on my R3 when shipped came off the bead and I somehow managed to reseat them with a regular track pump.

just curious how much wheels play into that
I'm running Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 11Storm. Unless you're running Mavic/Mavic, I think that getting the tires to seat with a track pump is dumb luck with the rim/tire combo.

Frankly, I'm more curious about how your tire came unseated. Are they loose enough that they'll unseat when you deflate? That would concern me.
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Old 04-21-20, 07:10 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I'm running Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 11Storm. Unless you're running Mavic/Mavic, I think that getting the tires to seat with a track pump is dumb luck with the rim/tire combo.

Frankly, I'm more curious about how your tire came unseated. Are they loose enough that they'll unseat when you deflate? That would concern me.
​​​​
they came unseated on my i9 wheels too when deflated with the weight of the bike on them- probably dumb luck
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Old 04-21-20, 08:35 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
I've not had great luck with the older Pro Ones (maybe the new ones have less fragile sidewalls),
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
From the little I've read, users are saying they are more durable than the previous version. They are also available for about $35 each at Merlin.
Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
At that price, i'm gonna order a couple as well. Fool me thrice, let's see what happens
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
order 3. 2 rear/1 front, and you’ll have a spare in case something happens.
Originally Posted by acole3 View Post
I'm not seeing the link to the Merlin site for the Specialized Turbo RapidAir tires for $35.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Context. He's talking about the Schwalbe.
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...0c-187206.html
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Old 04-22-20, 09:39 AM
  #131  
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Here is where I am in my continuing adventure to figure out Tubeless.

To review, I have a set of Mavic Cosmic Pro UST with Yksion tires that arrived with my new bike. I didn't expect to set up tubeless right away, but the front tire went flat almost immediately and I found that it's much easier to mount the tires without a tube than with.

So, when I mounted the tires (w/o tube) and pumped up the front one, the beads seat, but then there is a leak from one of the spoke holes. On closer inspection, I can see that whomever put the wheels together (Canyon or Mavic?), had trouble with the rim tape because there is a piece of black tape placed over the normal rim tape in the vicinity of that particular spoke. There must be a perforation in the rim tape beneath it. The black tape looks well-placed to me, but obviously it is not gas-tight.

So, should I

1. just proceed with adding sealant, assuming that it will plug this hole?
2. Remove the black tape and try to seal whatever hole is in the rim tape with a better piece of tape?
3. Pull off all the rim tape and start again?

Advice requested.
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Old 04-22-20, 09:58 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Here is where I am in my continuing adventure to figure out Tubeless.

To review, I have a set of Mavic Cosmic Pro UST with Yksion tires that arrived with my new bike. I didn't expect to set up tubeless right away, but the front tire went flat almost immediately and I found that it's much easier to mount the tires without a tube than with.

So, when I mounted the tires (w/o tube) and pumped up the front one, the beads seat, but then there is a leak from one of the spoke holes. On closer inspection, I can see that whomever put the wheels together (Canyon or Mavic?), had trouble with the rim tape because there is a piece of black tape placed over the normal rim tape in the vicinity of that particular spoke. There must be a perforation in the rim tape beneath it. The black tape looks well-placed to me, but obviously it is not gas-tight.

So, should I

1. just proceed with adding sealant, assuming that it will plug this hole?
2. Remove the black tape and try to seal whatever hole is in the rim tape with a better piece of tape?
3. Pull off all the rim tape and start again?

Advice requested.
if it were me, I’d try #1 and go straight to 3 if it didn’t work
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Old 04-22-20, 10:15 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Here is where I am in my continuing adventure to figure out Tubeless.

To review, I have a set of Mavic Cosmic Pro UST with Yksion tires that arrived with my new bike. I didn't expect to set up tubeless right away, but the front tire went flat almost immediately and I found that it's much easier to mount the tires without a tube than with.

So, when I mounted the tires (w/o tube) and pumped up the front one, the beads seat, but then there is a leak from one of the spoke holes. On closer inspection, I can see that whomever put the wheels together (Canyon or Mavic?), had trouble with the rim tape because there is a piece of black tape placed over the normal rim tape in the vicinity of that particular spoke. There must be a perforation in the rim tape beneath it. The black tape looks well-placed to me, but obviously it is not gas-tight.

So, should I

1. just proceed with adding sealant, assuming that it will plug this hole?
2. Remove the black tape and try to seal whatever hole is in the rim tape with a better piece of tape?
3. Pull off all the rim tape and start again?

Advice requested.
Go directly to 3. Do it right and you won't have to worry about it later. If you try 1 and it doesn't work, you also have to clean the mess out really well to install the new tape...2 just leaves that same failure point...
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Old 04-22-20, 10:18 AM
  #134  
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Personally, I'd pull it off and re-tape.

You could try #1 , but I don't know how well sealant works on sealing non-rubbery bits of the system - it'll probably seal it, but you're looking at more cleanup if it doesn't.
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Old 04-22-20, 10:40 AM
  #135  
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Got my first road tubeless "flat" on my rear tire. I assume it happened during my last outdoor ride on Sunday, but I only noticed it when I pumped the tires up to 94 psi (very high) for an indoor ride yesterday. The added pressure and tire deformation on the roller drum was enough to push sealant through the hole a little more and onto the roller drums making them slick. It was actually a fairly large hole, so color me impressed with the sealing properties of Stans Race Sealant.

The main takeaway here is that I didn't even notice I had a puncture because it sealed instantaneously on the outdoor ride. I didn't even have sealant splatters on the chainstay or seat tube. This "flat" was probably for the better, as that GP5KTL had over 2000 miles on it and was due for replacement.

This makes me 1 for 1 on road tubeless being waaaay less of a pain than a tubed setup when it comes to punctures.
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Old 04-22-20, 11:02 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
The main takeaway here is that I didn't even notice I had a puncture because it sealed instantaneously on the outdoor ride. I didn't even have sealant splatters on the chainstay or seat tube.
I think that this happens a lot more than people realize, which is why I was saying that, if you really want an idea of efficacy, you need to look at your rate of flats more so than tallying evidence of punctures.

I wish that I had taken a picture at the time, but in late Dec, when I was visiting my in-laws in VA, I got back from a ride and looked at my rear tire. Like yours, it had more than 2k miles on it and was close to EOL, but the interesting bit was that on the side of the tire facing me, there were half a dozen little cuts with wet spots surrounding them. The shoulders down there were pretty gritty, but that was surprising.
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Old 05-04-20, 08:49 AM
  #137  
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So I had my first badluck with my TL setup this Saturday - I rolled on broken pieces of a glass bottle (youngsters and their delinquency...) while riding on the shoulder of a nearby road and it made 2 small punctures (1-2mm). Sealant wasn't able to do it's job and it sprayed everywhere.

I ended up putting a tube instead (thanks to my girlfriend for the towing service) & am now hesitating between the 3 options (#1 would clearly be the one I would go with...). I don't have the tools required at home to play with TL setups.

1) Patching the tire from the inside - I heard it was feasible?
2) Replacing rear tire with the same one (1 week for my LBS to order it + a few more days to install it)
3) Replacing the 2 tires with non-tubeless ones (quite expensive...)

What do you think?
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Old 05-04-20, 09:00 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
So I had my first badluck with my TL setup this Saturday - I rolled on broken pieces of a glass bottle (youngsters and their delinquency...) while riding on the shoulder of a nearby road and it made 2 small punctures (1-2mm). Sealant wasn't able to do it's job and it sprayed everywhere.

I ended up putting a tube instead (thanks to my girlfriend for the towing service) & am now hesitating between the 3 options (#1 would clearly be the one I would go with...). I don't have the tools required at home to play with TL setups.

1) Patching the tire from the inside - I heard it was feasible?
2) Replacing rear tire with the same one (1 week for my LBS to order it + a few more days to install it)
3) Replacing the 2 tires with non-tubeless ones (quite expensive...)

What do you think?
1-2mm punctures should be child's play for a decent sealant - what was in there? Was is old?

If you've got the tire off already, or you have to take it off to remove the tube, you might as well patch it (just like you would with a tube, though I don't think that you need to scuff up the surrounding area - just make sure it's clean). But at 1-2mm, I'd be tempted to just re-mount and put in some good, fresh sealant.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:03 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
The main takeaway here is that I didn't even notice I had a puncture because it sealed instantaneously on the outdoor ride. I didn't even have sealant splatters on the chainstay or seat tube.

This makes me 1 for 1 on road tubeless being waaaay less of a pain than a tubed setup when it comes to punctures.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I think that this happens a lot more than people realize, which is why I was saying that, if you really want an idea of efficacy, you need to look at your rate of flats more so than tallying evidence of punctures.
When I removed my tire after 2300 miles, I cleaned out the sealant and looked for puncture. 5 thorns + 2 bits of wire were found. I never noticed these while on the bike.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:09 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
1-2mm punctures should be child's play for a decent sealant - what was in there? Was is old?

If you've got the tire off already, or you have to take it off to remove the tube, you might as well patch it (just like you would with a tube, though I don't think that you need to scuff up the surrounding area - just make sure it's clean). But at 1-2mm, I'd be tempted to just re-mount and put in some good, fresh sealant.
Original Giant setup... My bike has 2000kms (ish) so far, but the tire still has plenty of life remaining.

The LBS I went to on Saturday evening told me it was not reparable. I do not trust this LBS, and I am going to another one to see if it is. IMO, I can put crazy glue inside the hole from the exterior, then a patch inside & put sealant. Would do this all by myself, but as I said, I am not equipped for TL maintenance at all. I need to buy sealant & either a new tubeless pump or keep my current one & buy one of these tank that you can ''charge'' with a regular pump. I realized it was a must if I wanted to keep running TL tires.

#1 (a little bigger than 1-2mm, sorry for that, I just saw this. The tube inside stretched it).


#2

Last edited by eduskator; 05-04-20 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:20 AM
  #141  
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The bottom one looks worse than the top, but neither is a 1mm puncture.

Is the bottom one a V-shaped cut? Is the casing bulging in that area when under pressure? If so, bin it. If not, it's probably worth a try to do as you say - superglue on the outside and patch on the inside.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:24 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Original Giant setup... My bike has 2000kms (ish) so far, but the tire still has plenty of life remaining.

The LBS I went to on Saturday evening told me it was not reparable. I do not trust this LBS.
#2
I'd probably toss that tire, and move up to a 28mm tire while you are at it.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:27 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
The bottom one looks worse than the top, but neither is a 1mm puncture.

Is the bottom one a V-shaped cut? Is the casing bulging in that area when under pressure? If so, bin it. If not, it's probably worth a try to do as you say - superglue on the outside and patch on the inside.
No bulging. Inner tube is inflated at 100psi right now, and I ended my ride without any issues. I could patch both areas & see if it holds.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:29 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I'd probably toss that tire, and move up to a 28mm tire while you are at it.
This is what I'll do if I choose option 3 (buy 2 new non-tubeless tires). Not sure if they would fit my TCR though. I've read on different forums and some say yes, some say no.
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Old 05-04-20, 09:48 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
This is what I'll do if I choose option 3 (buy 2 new non-tubeless tires). Not sure if they would fit my TCR though. I've read on different forums and some say yes, some say no.
It likely depends on the rim width, and the tire you choose.

I always buy 3 tires at a time for 2 reasons. Rear tires wear out at about a 2-1 rate, and I like to have a spare on hand in case something like this happens.
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Old 05-04-20, 10:57 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
This is what I'll do if I choose option 3 (buy 2 new non-tubeless tires).
Do you have some other reasons for wanting to go away from tubeless? Because if your reason is that it didn't succeed in plugging up cut #2 , that's like saying that you're not happy with your car because it can't get you from NY to BOS in 70 minutes.
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Old 05-04-20, 12:49 PM
  #147  
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This is a timely thread for me as I just swapped out the Mavic Yksion Pro UST 28 (set up as clinchers) to Schwalbe Micro skin TL 30 on my Orbea Gain M30. Mind you, this bike has easily the most uncomfortable rear I’ve ever ridden. It crashes and bangs over bumps and was so unpleasant that I (in my usual dim witted way of thinking) started shopping replacements.

Anyway, largely due to WhyFi’s posts on the topic, I felt compelled to at least try an install a set of TLs myself. Picked up the PRO ONES from Merlincycles for $41 each, ordered some Mavic sealant and come the big day...one of the valves was defective.

While that made the first install more challenging than necessary, it also provided an opportunity for an interesting comparison: 30mm tubeless front TL VS 28mm tubed Yksion rear. PSI F 50, RR 60 (you read that correctly—I weigh 210 yet in my quest for comfort had dropped my rear tire pressures all the way down to 60 with a tube tire on a 19mm internal rim).

First time out it was clear that the front was clearly more comfortable, but I wasn’t so sure the rear would work as well. After all, the Yksion is a highly rated tire and 2mm and some sealant couldn’t make that big a difference, right? Wrong...

The TL at 55psi in the rear (now 45 in front) transformed the ride into titanium sweetness. I’m stunned, and happy to say that the installation was easy (once I got valves that worked). No sealant spills and just one tire lever needed to get the bead onto the rim. As far as pace, comfort is everything: you sit down, mash the pedals and motor forward, (instead of lifting your butt up over each bump) so your pace feels more consistent, as does your mindfulness—yesterday I enjoyed the most meditative 30 mile ride since I purchased this bike six months and 800 miles ago.

Long story short—I am a tubeless, low pressure convert and can’t believe it took me this long to figure it out.
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Old 05-04-20, 04:03 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Do you have some other reasons for wanting to go away from tubeless? Because if your reason is that it didn't succeed in plugging up cut #2 , that's like saying that you're not happy with your car because it can't get you from NY to BOS in 70 minutes.
Guess it's just the extra hassle that comes with it. Anyways, I ended up buying a new TL Giant tire at my LBS & some sealant. I spent 1 hour trying to inflate the freaking tire using one of my air compressor (150PSI) and it didn't work. Even at high pressure, air was getting out instead of pushing the beads to where they should be. I was about to put WD-40 in there & light it up, but came back to my senses and gave up. There is something I am not doing right. Oh well, first times are the worst. I will resume tomorrow. If you have any tips for me, feel free to make me happy!

I am now thinking of ordering a new bike pump that comes with a built-in compressor. They are not cheap, but could clearly save me some headaches on the long run.

Last edited by eduskator; 05-04-20 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 05-04-20, 07:57 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Guess it's just the extra hassle that comes with it. Anyways, I ended up buying a new TL Giant tire at my LBS & some sealant. I spent 1 hour trying to inflate the freaking tire using one of my air compressor (150PSI) and it didn't work. Even at high pressure, air was getting out instead of pushing the beads to where they should be. I was about to put WD-40 in there & light it up, but came back to my senses and gave up. There is something I am not doing right. Oh well, first times are the worst. I will resume tomorrow. If you have any tips for me, feel free to make me happy!
I've seated tires on the first try with a floor pump, but also spent 2 or 3 hours seating the same tire model on the same wheel with an industrial compressor. It can be a real crapshoot. You might try installing the tire on another wheel with a tube to pre-shape it -- that might make it seat easier.
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Old 05-04-20, 08:25 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
Guess it's just the extra hassle that comes with it. Anyways, I ended up buying a new TL Giant tire at my LBS & some sealant. I spent 1 hour trying to inflate the freaking tire using one of my air compressor (150PSI) and it didn't work. Even at high pressure, air was getting out instead of pushing the beads to where they should be. I was about to put WD-40 in there & light it up, but came back to my senses and gave up. There is something I am not doing right. Oh well, first times are the worst. I will resume tomorrow. If you have any tips for me, feel free to make me happy!
Sure -

Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
  • When seating, do the little things. Have a bottle of soapy water on-hand. Mist the tire beads all the way around, on both sides. Pinch and wiggle the tire all the way around - you're making sure that the beads are in the channel and that the beads/rim are slippery enough to pop up on to the shoulders when you hit it with air. Access to a good compressor or air blast canister really helps. A "snap, snap, POP!" is the sign of a job well done and is *so* satisfying.
  • After seating a tire, deflate it - if the beads don't stay in place, you didn't do it right. If the beads do stay in place, remove the core, add sealant dose through the valve, re-inflate. Shake and spin the tire a bit so that the sealant can plug any little leaks. Check pressure a little later - add more air and spin if necessary.
Also, take out your valve core if you can (if you have a trigger on your compressor wand/if it doesn't rely on the valve pin depressing it); you have pressure, but removing the core helps with volume - you want to deliver air as quickly as possible, that's what helps pop the beads up in to place.

Last edited by WhyFi; 05-04-20 at 08:31 PM.
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