I have bad knees from a motorcycle accident in 2016 and have had two surgeries. I can hike 15 miles but can not trail so turned to biking in xmas 2019.

I noticed my knees hurt a lot more when I am locked in ( using clip less shoes ). While my cadence is up and I am little faster I think over time the repetitive motion of being locked in might do more harm than good.

I prefer to ride with my salomon speedcross 4 shoes. I like them because they have no shoe laces but I notice they are 180 different from my cycling shoe. The cycling shoe bottom is really stiff while my trail running shoe bottom
is very soft.

Do I want a stiff bottom shoe? If so looking for recommendations.

I ride for fitness if that makes a difference. I don't need the shoes to walk around in after I get off the bike etc..

Have you looked into mountain biking shoes? There are a lot that are specifically designed for riding with flat pedals.

I think I already have that. This my current setup.

A lot of SPD shoes come with a removable cover where you install the cleats. Not all but some. You can use these shoes with the cover still in place.

Those are clipless. I was talking about something like five ten.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topic...ike-flat-shoes

Have you looked at Speedplay Ultra Light Action pedals? Lots of free float, which allows the knee/ankle to find its own position, rather than being locked down.

A stiff-soled shoe means you aren't losing energy into the flexing of the sole. More energy is transferred to the pedal.

Five Tens are pretty much the standard flat pedal shoe. Many many options.

yes, that's exactly what I was looking for you.

Thank you.

that's a good idea. maybe I should look into that also. My cadence is a good 10 rpm higher when clipped in.

I have these on back order. Still no word on when I will get them. It's been a month. I am started to think I should just cancel them.
https://www.clevertraining.com/assio...ng-power-meter

It might take a little bit to get familiar with the feeling of free float, but I'm a fan of allowing my leg joints to work in their most efficient path. I've been using Speedplays for many, many years, and have no worries, including in the middle of a 1000+W sprint. Personally, riding a bike without being clipped in feels really weird - LOL.

Crocs.

Try to play a bit with cleat angles on the shoes. It is possible that the way they are installed now positions the feet into the angle which doesn't work well for you. A tiny change in cleat angle makes a huge difference for knees. At least to my knees. Judging by your photo right now your cleats are positioned for toed out feet. I'd be hitting chainstays all day long. ;-)

That's probably because when I start to pedal I turned my feet out a little. I am trying to point my toes straight but it's a struggle. My natural tendency is toes out while walking/running etc.. In fact my feet go out so much I can turn them in to get out of the pedals. I am already turning my feet in just to pedal. To get out I have to make sure the foot that gets out is at the 12 o'clock position so there is room for my heals to turn in.

And yeah my heals some times hit the ht chain stay now that you mention it.

Well, your toes will follow your cleats, you can position your cleats at such an angle that your feet will become straight. But your knees will probably hurt more. My feet are also normally toed out and I was able to find a compromise cleat angle where feet are already mostly straight and knees don't hurt yet. Or you can leave your feet toed out and get pedal extenders to position your feet farther away from the frame. Anyway, very small (like one degree) angle difference can make a huge difference for knees.

As for "to get out I have to make sure the foot that gets out is at the 12 o'clock position so there is room for my heals to turn in" - why do you want to turn your heels IN? Isn't it easier to turn them OUT?

For normal person you are correct.

This is my feet normal.


This me struggling to turn my feet as much as possible. My knees actual when I turn them in this much. Most people can turn a lot more.



As you can see from the picture there is no room for me to turn my heals in. My shoe hits the crank.


When the crank is at the 12 o'clock position there is room for me to turn my heals in.

Moving your cleats further back would give some more room to your heels and make your feet a bit more stable too. Moving your cleats toward the inner edge of your feet will move your feet outward and provide further room for your heels. Adding some pedal washers will add even more room - you should be safe to add up to 2 mm of washers between your pedals and cranks.

Nothing wrong with flat pedals though. With some practice you can learn to increase your cadence on them too.

Five-Ten is a safe bet in non-clipless shoes for platform pedals. Check current reviews for rival brands -- Shimano, Pearl Izumi, etc. -- but reviewers typically consider Five-Ten the standard for others to meet or beat. That said, my usual shoes for platform pedals are Merrell high tops and Adidas low top Daily 2.0 traditional sneaks with stiffer than usual soles, although not quite as stiff as Five-Ten. Love 'em for bike rides.

I use iSSi Thump pedals on one hybrid. Great pedals for around $40. Large platform, very slightly concave and feel great. Can't say I really notice myself missing being clipped in when riding that bike. My cadence on the hybrid is usually around 60-75 rpm so I rarely feel my feet getting ahead of the pedal. The only time I really feel like clipless helps is when spinning 90 rpm or faster, especially on fast downhills.

And if I'm having knee twinges on the road bikes clipped in, switching to the hybrid lets me put my feet wherever it feels most comfortable. It's more than just float. Sometimes I prefer being able to move my feet forward or backward a bit. Can't do that with my Look or Shimano clipless setups.

Five Ten Freeriders have sticky soles. I've paired mine with pinned flat pedals (DMR V12s, but there are a large number of competitors at all price levels). Whenever a knee hurts, I've been able to find a place on the shoe that makes the pain stop. The fact that I'm not clipped in allows me to micro adjust both the fore-aft position and the toe-in and toe-out of my foot on the pedal. The pins keep my foot in close contact with the pedals almost as much as toe clips do.