Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Best NON clip less shoe?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Best NON clip less shoe?

Old 05-06-20, 12:43 PM
  #1  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 227

Bikes: Topstone AL 105 / SystemSix Carbon Ultegra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Best NON clip less shoe?

I have bad knees from a motorcycle accident in 2016 and have had two surgeries. I can hike 15 miles but can not trail so turned to biking in xmas 2019.

I noticed my knees hurt a lot more when I am locked in ( using clip less shoes ). While my cadence is up and I am little faster I think over time the repetitive motion of being locked in might do more harm than good.

I prefer to ride with my salomon speedcross 4 shoes. I like them because they have no shoe laces but I notice they are 180 different from my cycling shoe. The cycling shoe bottom is really stiff while my trail running shoe bottom
is very soft.

Do I want a stiff bottom shoe? If so looking for recommendations.

I ride for fitness if that makes a difference. I don't need the shoes to walk around in after I get off the bike etc..
sean.hwy is offline  
Old 05-06-20, 12:53 PM
  #2  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 993

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 125 Posts
Have you looked into mountain biking shoes? There are a lot that are specifically designed for riding with flat pedals.
smashndash is offline  
Likes For smashndash:
Old 05-06-20, 01:03 PM
  #3  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 227

Bikes: Topstone AL 105 / SystemSix Carbon Ultegra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
Have you looked into mountain biking shoes? There are a lot that are specifically designed for riding with flat pedals.
I think I already have that. This my current setup.

sean.hwy is offline  
Old 05-06-20, 01:07 PM
  #4  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 4,497

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1662 Post(s)
Liked 380 Times in 262 Posts
Originally Posted by sean.hwy View Post
I think I already have that. This my current setup.

A lot of SPD shoes come with a removable cover where you install the cleats. Not all but some. You can use these shoes with the cover still in place.
Steve B. is offline  
Likes For Steve B.:
Old 05-06-20, 01:19 PM
  #5  
smashndash
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 993

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 598 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 125 Posts
Originally Posted by sean.hwy View Post
I think I already have that. This my current setup.

Those are clipless. I was talking about something like five ten.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topic...ike-flat-shoes
smashndash is offline  
Likes For smashndash:
Old 05-06-20, 01:25 PM
  #6  
Eric F
Senior Member
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 175

Bikes: 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 1977 Nishiki ONP, 1999 Trek 9900 Team Issue

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 131 Times in 51 Posts
Have you looked at Speedplay Ultra Light Action pedals? Lots of free float, which allows the knee/ankle to find its own position, rather than being locked down.

A stiff-soled shoe means you aren't losing energy into the flexing of the sole. More energy is transferred to the pedal.

Last edited by Eric F; 05-06-20 at 01:28 PM.
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 05-06-20, 02:23 PM
  #7  
Canker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 215 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 35 Posts
Five Tens are pretty much the standard flat pedal shoe. Many many options.
Canker is offline  
Likes For Canker:
Old 05-06-20, 03:23 PM
  #8  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 227

Bikes: Topstone AL 105 / SystemSix Carbon Ultegra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
Those are clipless. I was talking about something like five ten.

https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topic...ike-flat-shoes
yes, that's exactly what I was looking for you.

Thank you.
sean.hwy is offline  
Old 05-06-20, 03:26 PM
  #9  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 227

Bikes: Topstone AL 105 / SystemSix Carbon Ultegra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Have you looked at Speedplay Ultra Light Action pedals? Lots of free float, which allows the knee/ankle to find its own position, rather than being locked down.

A stiff-soled shoe means you aren't losing energy into the flexing of the sole. More energy is transferred to the pedal.

that's a good idea. maybe I should look into that also. My cadence is a good 10 rpm higher when clipped in.

I have these on back order. Still no word on when I will get them. It's been a month. I am started to think I should just cancel them.
https://www.clevertraining.com/assio...ng-power-meter
sean.hwy is offline  
Likes For sean.hwy:
Old 05-06-20, 03:41 PM
  #10  
Eric F
Senior Member
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 175

Bikes: 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 1977 Nishiki ONP, 1999 Trek 9900 Team Issue

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 131 Times in 51 Posts
Originally Posted by sean.hwy View Post
that's a good idea. maybe I should look into that also. My cadence is a good 10 rpm higher when clipped in.

I have these on back order. Still no word on when I will get them. It's been a month. I am started to think I should just cancel them.
https://www.clevertraining.com/assio...ng-power-meter
It might take a little bit to get familiar with the feeling of free float, but I'm a fan of allowing my leg joints to work in their most efficient path. I've been using Speedplays for many, many years, and have no worries, including in the middle of a 1000+W sprint. Personally, riding a bike without being clipped in feels really weird - LOL.

Last edited by Eric F; 05-06-20 at 04:13 PM.
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 05-06-20, 04:00 PM
  #11  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 761

Bikes: TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times in 129 Posts
Crocs.
eduskator is offline  
Old 05-06-20, 09:15 PM
  #12  
Oso Polar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 272

Bikes: Trek 3500, Jamis Renegade Escapade

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by sean.hwy View Post
I noticed my knees hurt a lot more when I am locked in ( using clip less shoes ).
Try to play a bit with cleat angles on the shoes. It is possible that the way they are installed now positions the feet into the angle which doesn't work well for you. A tiny change in cleat angle makes a huge difference for knees. At least to my knees. Judging by your photo right now your cleats are positioned for toed out feet. I'd be hitting chainstays all day long. ;-)
Oso Polar is offline  
Likes For Oso Polar:
Old 05-06-20, 09:30 PM
  #13  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 227

Bikes: Topstone AL 105 / SystemSix Carbon Ultegra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Oso Polar View Post
Try to play a bit with cleat angles on the shoes. It is possible that the way they are installed now positions the feet into the angle which doesn't work well for you. A tiny change in cleat angle makes a huge difference for knees. At least to my knees. Judging by your photo right now your cleats are positioned for toed out feet. I'd be hitting chainstays all day long. ;-)
That's probably because when I start to pedal I turned my feet out a little. I am trying to point my toes straight but it's a struggle. My natural tendency is toes out while walking/running etc.. In fact my feet go out so much I can turn them in to get out of the pedals. I am already turning my feet in just to pedal. To get out I have to make sure the foot that gets out is at the 12 o'clock position so there is room for my heals to turn in.

And yeah my heals some times hit the ht chain stay now that you mention it.
sean.hwy is offline  
Old 05-06-20, 10:23 PM
  #14  
Oso Polar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 272

Bikes: Trek 3500, Jamis Renegade Escapade

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 38 Times in 31 Posts
Well, your toes will follow your cleats, you can position your cleats at such an angle that your feet will become straight. But your knees will probably hurt more. My feet are also normally toed out and I was able to find a compromise cleat angle where feet are already mostly straight and knees don't hurt yet. Or you can leave your feet toed out and get pedal extenders to position your feet farther away from the frame. Anyway, very small (like one degree) angle difference can make a huge difference for knees.

As for "to get out I have to make sure the foot that gets out is at the 12 o'clock position so there is room for my heals to turn in" - why do you want to turn your heels IN? Isn't it easier to turn them OUT?
Oso Polar is offline  
Old 05-07-20, 01:01 AM
  #15  
sean.hwy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: San Jose
Posts: 227

Bikes: Topstone AL 105 / SystemSix Carbon Ultegra

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Originally Posted by Oso Polar View Post
Well, your toes will follow your cleats, you can position your cleats at such an angle that your feet will become straight. But your knees will probably hurt more. My feet are also normally toed out and I was able to find a compromise cleat angle where feet are already mostly straight and knees don't hurt yet. Or you can leave your feet toed out and get pedal extenders to position your feet farther away from the frame. Anyway, very small (like one degree) angle difference can make a huge difference for knees.

As for "to get out I have to make sure the foot that gets out is at the 12 o'clock position so there is room for my heals to turn in" - why do you want to turn your heels IN? Isn't it easier to turn them OUT?
For normal person you are correct.

This is my feet normal.


This me struggling to turn my feet as much as possible. My knees actual when I turn them in this much. Most people can turn a lot more.



As you can see from the picture there is no room for me to turn my heals in. My shoe hits the crank.


When the crank is at the 12 o'clock position there is room for me to turn my heals in.
sean.hwy is offline  
Old 05-07-20, 04:53 AM
  #16  
Fiery
Senior Member
 
Fiery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,349
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts
Moving your cleats further back would give some more room to your heels and make your feet a bit more stable too. Moving your cleats toward the inner edge of your feet will move your feet outward and provide further room for your heels. Adding some pedal washers will add even more room - you should be safe to add up to 2 mm of washers between your pedals and cranks.

Nothing wrong with flat pedals though. With some practice you can learn to increase your cadence on them too.
Fiery is offline  
Likes For Fiery:
Old 05-07-20, 05:11 AM
  #17  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,709

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 184 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3719 Post(s)
Liked 1,327 Times in 872 Posts
Five-Ten is a safe bet in non-clipless shoes for platform pedals. Check current reviews for rival brands -- Shimano, Pearl Izumi, etc. -- but reviewers typically consider Five-Ten the standard for others to meet or beat. That said, my usual shoes for platform pedals are Merrell high tops and Adidas low top Daily 2.0 traditional sneaks with stiffer than usual soles, although not quite as stiff as Five-Ten. Love 'em for bike rides.

I use iSSi Thump pedals on one hybrid. Great pedals for around $40. Large platform, very slightly concave and feel great. Can't say I really notice myself missing being clipped in when riding that bike. My cadence on the hybrid is usually around 60-75 rpm so I rarely feel my feet getting ahead of the pedal. The only time I really feel like clipless helps is when spinning 90 rpm or faster, especially on fast downhills.

And if I'm having knee twinges on the road bikes clipped in, switching to the hybrid lets me put my feet wherever it feels most comfortable. It's more than just float. Sometimes I prefer being able to move my feet forward or backward a bit. Can't do that with my Look or Shimano clipless setups.
canklecat is offline  
Likes For canklecat:
Old 05-08-20, 02:29 PM
  #18  
philbob57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago North Shore
Posts: 1,468

Bikes: frankenbike based on MKM frame

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 399 Post(s)
Liked 165 Times in 100 Posts
Five Ten Freeriders have sticky soles. I've paired mine with pinned flat pedals (DMR V12s, but there are a large number of competitors at all price levels). Whenever a knee hurts, I've been able to find a place on the shoe that makes the pain stop. The fact that I'm not clipped in allows me to micro adjust both the fore-aft position and the toe-in and toe-out of my foot on the pedal. The pins keep my foot in close contact with the pedals almost as much as toe clips do.
philbob57 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.