When Shimano 12 speed lands will it be for Dura-Ace only?
08-20-21, 06:07 PM
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When Shimano 12 speed lands will it be for Dura-Ace only?
I keep hearing/reading rumours of Shimano 12 speed coming at some point in the future. I have no reason to doubt these rumours, but I am curious. When Shimano eventually does release their version of 12 speed, will it be for the Dura-Ace lineup only at first? Or does Shimano have history of releasing new tech across all their lines - Dura-Ace, Ultegra, 105 - at the same time?
08-20-21, 06:55 PM
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Ultegra is supposed to be coming as well. However, neither may be available at retail for some time. DA may be available first. Complete bikes are a different matter.
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08-20-21, 07:53 PM
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08-20-21, 11:50 PM
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The normal rollout for new Shimano groups puts Dura Ace in year 1, Ultegra in year 2 and 105 in year 3. After that I would expect to see Tiagra, Sora and Claris to each gain an extra rear cog
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08-21-21, 02:41 AM
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I still think 9 is the perfect number of cogs and I have 10 and 11. 12 is just silly but I guess they have to keep coming up with new stuff. By the time they hit 13 you'll probably have to buy new wheelsets again.
What they need to come up with is some high tech superlight 15 speed IGH hub with electronic shifting instead of adding a cog and even narrower weaker chains every few years.
What they need to come up with is some high tech superlight 15 speed IGH hub with electronic shifting instead of adding a cog and even narrower weaker chains every few years.
08-21-21, 07:13 AM
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Shimano will be supplying both DA and ultegra groups for OEM use first. There won't be a multi-year stagger as in the past. That’s their bread and butter. Right now sram red and force are getting all of 12 speed sales on OEM bikes.
I've bought Campy chorus 12 in 2019 and force axs 12 last August. After 25 years with Campy, I've moved on to electronic shifting. Unfortunately, Shimano 12 will still have a battery in the seat tube and wiring to both derailleurs. I can't complain about wireless.
I've bought Campy chorus 12 in 2019 and force axs 12 last August. After 25 years with Campy, I've moved on to electronic shifting. Unfortunately, Shimano 12 will still have a battery in the seat tube and wiring to both derailleurs. I can't complain about wireless.
08-21-21, 08:55 AM
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08-21-21, 08:59 AM
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Any guesses on how long afterwards til the other tiers move up in speeds, ie. Tiagra to 11, 105 to 12, etc?
08-21-21, 11:09 AM
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I still think 9 is the perfect number of cogs and I have 10 and 11. 12 is just silly but I guess they have to keep coming up with new stuff. By the time they hit 13 you'll probably have to buy new wheelsets again.
What they need to come up with is some high tech superlight 15 speed IGH hub with electronic shifting instead of adding a cog and even narrower weaker chains every few years.
What they need to come up with is some high tech superlight 15 speed IGH hub with electronic shifting instead of adding a cog and even narrower weaker chains every few years.
Now, the case for more speeds would be better if the extra cogs weren't used to preserve the gaps and increase the range. My favorite cassette was the old 10sp 12-28, and I probably would have loved the Campy 13-29. Small cogs feel gross, but the direction now is to have 11-up at the largest and make all the cassettes end in what would have been granny gears just a decade ago.
08-22-21, 01:13 AM
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From all industry rumours it's going to be both Dura Ace and Ultegra going 12-speed this time around, mostly just OEM bikes due to stock demands.
I just HOPE that Shimano 12-speed cassettes fit on the same hubs as the 11-speed stuff, unlike SRAM's offering (Campag managed it).
I just HOPE that Shimano 12-speed cassettes fit on the same hubs as the 11-speed stuff, unlike SRAM's offering (Campag managed it).
08-22-21, 04:30 AM
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If it uses the same spline pattern but longer cassette bodies, you can probably keep using your old wheels with a bit of ingenuity. I jammed a 10s cassette onto a 7s cassette body; there's plenty of room for improvement in the packaging.
08-22-21, 08:39 AM
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I remember when I started and 10sp ha just come out there was much hand-wringing and pearl-clutching about chain life, but it hasn't been an issue.
Now, the case for more speeds would be better if the extra cogs weren't used to preserve the gaps and increase the range. My favorite cassette was the old 10sp 12-28, and I probably would have loved the Campy 13-29. Small cogs feel gross, but the direction now is to have 11-up at the largest and make all the cassettes end in what would have been granny gears just a decade ago.
Now, the case for more speeds would be better if the extra cogs weren't used to preserve the gaps and increase the range. My favorite cassette was the old 10sp 12-28, and I probably would have loved the Campy 13-29. Small cogs feel gross, but the direction now is to have 11-up at the largest and make all the cassettes end in what would have been granny gears just a decade ago.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/techn...linkglide.html
08-22-21, 08:50 AM
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I remember when I started and 10sp ha just come out there was much hand-wringing and pearl-clutching about chain life, but it hasn't been an issue.
Now, the case for more speeds would be better if the extra cogs weren't used to preserve the gaps and increase the range. My favorite cassette was the old 10sp 12-28, and I probably would have loved the Campy 13-29. Small cogs feel gross, but the direction now is to have 11-up at the largest and make all the cassettes end in what would have been granny gears just a decade ago.
Now, the case for more speeds would be better if the extra cogs weren't used to preserve the gaps and increase the range. My favorite cassette was the old 10sp 12-28, and I probably would have loved the Campy 13-29. Small cogs feel gross, but the direction now is to have 11-up at the largest and make all the cassettes end in what would have been granny gears just a decade ago.
08-22-21, 09:06 AM
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What's the likelihood of getting the 12s by default if anyone places an order for an Ultegra level bike that's being quoted as available sometime not until next year? Per the Bikesdirect listing, their 12s I think was showing approx availability in Dec of this year fwiw.
08-22-21, 11:23 AM
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08-22-21, 01:29 PM
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If you are lucky they'll give you a 10-28. Imo, 10 speed would be plenty if more and better cassette and crank options were available. - Just give me a SHIMANO 10s 13-29 for the road bike and a 28/42 crank for the gravel bike, thanks! :-)
08-22-21, 01:43 PM
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When they did 12 speed MTB, Shimano was so far behind the SRAM Eagle offerings they pushed it downhill fast. They did XTR in 2018, XT and SLX in 2019, and Deore in 2020. They included the new freehub at Deore level which I found a surprise.
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08-22-21, 01:50 PM
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How fast will it all happen? That depends on how fast everyone buys 12 speed Shimano equipped road bikes.
I doubt any DIYer wanting to upgrade their existing stuff will be enough sales to make anything happen at all one way or the other.
I doubt any DIYer wanting to upgrade their existing stuff will be enough sales to make anything happen at all one way or the other.
08-22-21, 02:31 PM
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Hopefully everyone wants Di2 at this point.
