Me too! I agree with everything that everyone says here, especially beng1, EricF and carbonfibreboy and terrymorse about ways to get a bit lower.

But, if you do go for the shoes, there are some cheaper shoes on ebay in (I am guessing) a size 8
Mountain bike for $25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/27503901682...QAAOSwJv1hnWBO
or these for $50
https://www.ebay.com/itm/23461070255...EAAOSwgCpiTcjW

Clip in shoes can be dangerous at first (I fell of more than once not realising I had to clip out before reaching a standstill!) so the straps that carbonfibreboy recommends may be better at first.

A polyester rather than cotton T-shirt will do and not soak up sweat may help but, perhaps because you are in a desert, you don't seem to be getting wet.
(I get them at thrift stores, the ones that are given away at a marathons, with the name of the marathon on it. I am wearing one now.)

But most of all what beng1 says at about raising your seat so that your thighs don't hit your torso when you lower your bars a little bit at a time/ You may wish to put your saddle forward like beng1's too to make it easier to go down forward and low. And also as Beng1 says, not feeling you have to have your head craned up *all the time*. If you crane your head up every now and again, and look out of the top of your brows most of the rest of the time instead, or down at the road too but that comes with risks.

I used to put my seat way up in the air! Here I am 13 years ago, hiding and trying to avoid my belly. I had been cycling for about a year so I had already got rid of quite a lot it.
https://live.staticflickr.com/2535/4...c3e1bf24dc.jpgForm by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr

I think you are doing really well and should just keep doing the same for a few more times. You will see results.

Tim

I am glad I got to see beng1's bike!

Late coming into your thread but a little suggestion that after looking at the above photos, you might want to check out Danny Dreyer's Chi Running and/or Chi Walking.

*What is ChiRunning technique?
ChiRunning is a running technique focused on reducing the impact of running on the joints and muscles of body and therefore avoiding the onset of running related injuries. In the words of the ChiRunning founder, Danny Dreyer, “Its not running that's bad for your body, its how you run that damages the body”.*

*Who invented ChiRunning?...........
The technique is the brain child of American Tai Chi practitioner and ultramarathon runner Danny Dreyer, who in the late 90's, after working closely with Tai Chi masters, developed this new running technique. He put what he had learned onto paper when he co-wrote ChiRunning (2004) with his wife Katherine Dreyer.*

ChiWalking was the ONLY WAY I was able to complete the 5K's to Full Marathon stand alone events or the distances in my Sprint to Ironman Triathlons.

p.s. - as a 60.5yo GEEZER with bowed legs and bone on bone knees my PB marathon was at WDW's 2011 Marathon Weekend, my first marathon and having already done the 5K on Friday and the Half Marathon on Saturday I ChiWalked the FULL on Sunday in 4:56:28.

BTW - :thumb::thumb: GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS and KUDOS 2 U

Fancy bike pedals are a waste of money unless you are doing very steep hills as in mountain-biking or 100-yard dashes. I am linking to a video reviewing the science research on this, showing that flat pedals are just as fast as expensive pedals in most all situations. I use flat pedals all I can, I think the pedals that clip shoes to them are a waste of time except for working pros.

Also back to being aerodynamic, I did not think of it before, but your bike may actually be too big for you. The frame of your bike should be small enough so that you can put the seat up high above the top of the bars but still reach the pedals. I am almost 6'3" tall, and when I first started trying to go fast I had one of the ridiculous Schwinn road bikes that had a 27" seat-post !!! I had to have the seat all the way down just to reach the pedals, so I could not raise it and get my body horizontal. Then I got a bike with a 25" seat-post and that let me get pretty low on the bike and go much faster. Now I am riding a bike with a 24" seat-post because it has a shorter head-tube and I can put the bars lower in relation to the seat, it is the best frame size I have had for speed yet, wish I had tried this size 25 years ago when I could make a lot more power than I can presently.
You don't need expensive equipment at all, what is important is that it is in good condition. One of the main things I check on my bikes is the rear derailleur, their wheels get sticky and dirty with time and can create a lot of drag, so I take mine apart and clean them with solvent and put them back together either dry or with the tiniest bit of light grease on the wheel bearings, then my chain will fly through the derailleur the best it can.

So keep working out on your bike, but keep an eye out for any cheap used bike with a smaller frame that was name-brand when it was new. It can be old too, as for relatively flat courses you don't need more than one to three gear ratios, so you can get away with one of the old ten or twelve-speed bikes no problem. When I was younger I used to be able to go over 23mph average on my old 12-speed bike over twelve or more miles easily. My current race bike is a 10-speeder from 1973. When you get used to riding with your body horizontal you can switch to the smaller frame bike and get even more horizontal and pick up even more speed.

If I can think of anything else I will let you know.

I did think of something else, it is an old saying that goes; "You get in shape to run, you don't run to get in shape". One of the most common things people I know that are close to my age give or take get to do is have knee and hip replacements. If having fun matters more to you than finishing the triathlon at a certain speed, then quit running the running part of it and just walk it, until at such a point in the future you get back down to the weight you were at when you were in shape in the marines. I know a 72 year old woman who runs all the time and does triathlons, and she is quite tall, but she is like a twig so there is no big stress on her knees or hip joints. If I try running anymore I do it on grass or sand, when I was young I used to run on pavement with bare feet and it did not bother me. The people who interjected about running styles and minimizing movement are hitting the nail on the head. I see overweight people trying to run all the time locally on paved routes and it makes me cringe thinking about what they are doing to their knees and hips. I wish they would switch to walking, cycling or swimming and concentrate on diet until they dropped off most of their bodyfat before they got into running.

I wish I could run like I did when I was young, I was in track in H.S. and did 10Ks and run/bike events after H.S., but heart problems took that away from me along with age. Once you are old and out of shape, it is a long road back to being able to do anything that a 20 or 30 year-old can. I have tried jogging and running over the last year but it simply does not feel good anymore. I used to be able to do a 7-minute mile pace or even a little better when I was young in H.S., and some sixty year old people can probably do things like that, but it is not going to be us big heavy people, we are just hurting ourselves. I love riding a cycle, and I love going for walks and waking up in the morning and many other things, so I don't have to be able to run to enjoy living.

Aerodynamics of big vs TT type cycling shoes is a no brainer. Is it worth the money for her right now? Doubtful. Metabolic and gross efficiency is irrelevant.

Vegas........you have a lot of low hanging fruit with your position. Start there. Don't go buying gear. Things like wheels might get you a couple watts at 18 mph, shoes might get you 1 watts, a frame might get you a couple watts. Getting your position improved over time will be like 10 times better than a fancy set of wheels.

Ya, a lot of times, I focus on the lines too. My biggest concern is hitting rocks big enough to puncture tires. I've wondered if anybody made something like a reverse periscope, something where I can keep my head down but see the road in front of me. I could get a lot lower tomorrow if it weren't for having to bend my neck to see where I'm going.
I just happened to pick up a pair of used shoes in good shape pretty cheap. Sidi(?), I think they're a size 9 (men's). I have quite a bit of room in the toe so I cut up an old sock and stuffed it in there. Far from a permanent solution, but I bought them more to test the theory. If I see the advantages everybody else swears by, then I'll pony up for some new ones that actually fit me.
I will check out the ChiWalk thing. I need to do something. If I'm just running a 5 or 10k, my form looks a lot better. But honestly, by the time I've swam and ridden, regardless of distance, my run form goes all to hell.
Thanks for this video. I have been skeptical of how much clips and shoes really add as far as power. I get more stability and control, but putting power in, I just didn't see they would be such a huge advantage. This more or less confirms that. My biggest, only really, complaint with using flat pedals is just my foot moving around as I pedal. I do notice that I have to frequently reposition my foot on the pedal, especially after an incline where I've had to stand up and mash on the pedals. Seems my feet really move around then.

Good vision is key to riding as well as you can, as fast as you can. You've been given a bunch of ideas to improve your position and posture on the bike. Many of them will help you're ability to see and make good choices - in time...

Shoes need to fit, whatever you decide to use. Ill fitting shoes are a step backwards from the outset.
I've not reviewed those studies pointed out in the youtube vid, but I expect they are a narrow focus (and important to be that) and don't cover the various aspects of road riding. The video by a mountain biker, and certainly there are plenty of aspects of flat pedals which would provide equal function... The more involved one is in performance road cycling, the more the benefits of 'clipless' can apply. Not gonna outline because that's way to much.
Your Sidi shoes will require cleats and with pedals to match. It's a 'system'. Improper sized shoes will restrict the ability to properly position the cleats for your pedaling dynamics.
Moving to clipless can be frustrating and frightening for many - so some active help from someone experienced, from the start of putting the system together, putting the cleats in a good position for you, and tips and help for those many first rides - super important.
I can't believe that being able to stuff socks into your cycling shoes is going to be anything close to an 'improvement'.
I fear a greater chance of frustration and unsatisfaction if you struggle with this alone. Better to put off until you can give anything you're best shot.
Even though I noted in my earlier post that good cycling shoes would be a point of great improvement (and I still very much believe that); dialing in your position (to include saddle position) and posture would be quicker in bringing improvements.
Get help from local triathletes with some experience.
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: Oh and, this is not scientific study, just real world experience from experienced road riders...
and when they say 'science', they love to be Brit tongue-in-check...
real life... go look at and talk to the top finishers in any Tri you do, ask them about their bikes, shoes, pedal systems - anything.
Hear what they say about clipless vs flats...

I never though of it like that before. Since yesterday I have been thinking about how far my face is from my bars and that really helps me become aware of my position. Thank you.

The shoes, as beng1 says, are probably unnecessary in a time trial especially, but since the OP has been given some Sidi shoes (my favourite shoes) a couple of things
1) When I got some shoes that are too big for me it might have hurt my knees (I am not sure, it was manly age and weakness) so I recommend moving the cleat back towards the heel as far as it will go.
2) There are cheap SPD-SL cleats available from China if you decide to go with them. They are a bit dangerous because they have no rubberised bits to grip when you walk but when they get a bit scuffed up they are okay, they last a long time, and are about 1/3 the cost of Shimano.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000409970751.html

And as I said before, clip out before you slow down to stop!! Hips can break.

Tim that looks good.

TIL Vegasjen could probably beat me in a fistfight and lift more than me.

Flattering, but I'm not all that. I did a lot of weights when I was younger. Doesn't help I come from big stock to begin with. But I'm old now. I try to stay as fit as I can, but my free weight limit is about 15 pounds.

I’m usually at least 2mph faster on my time trial bike than on my road bike even though my road bike is 3lbs lighter at 17lb vs 20lbs for my TT bike, riding the same routes. It’s the much better aerodynamic body position with lowered head and shoulders plus the bike frame itself is flat and skinny, and the aero wheels help too. All that aero stuff costs money no doubt but you might get lucky and find a used TT bike cheap on EBay or such.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eca6fa146.jpeg

You don't look that low or that aero on that bike at all to me.

I think I was about to round a tight left turn where the photographer was standing when that picture was taken so I wasn’t as tucked in as usual. My point is, the TT bike itself is much more aerodynamic than a road bike, and it allows you to get your body down lower, out of the wind. When I ride my TT bike I’m usually going at least 2mph faster over the same routes I ride on my road bike. (22-25mph on the TT bike vs 20 on my road bike) with the same amount of effort.

The biggest factor in bicycle speed is the rider, followed by the rider getting horizontal on the bike, and a distant third is having specially shaped bicycle parts and clothing. You do not need a "TT" bike to get horizontal, riders of standard road bikes have been doing this the last century by simply having a properly sized bike so that they can put the seat up high enough in relation to the handlebars to get their body into a horizontal position. You would be able to go 22mph or faster on your "road" bike if you adjusted it's riding position, or if it were properly sized to allow you to get into a good position. 1973 Huffy Scout ten-speed:


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2d1f22e6b.jpg

That bike is too small for you.

And that’s why the professional riders all ride their road bikes in a time trial, right?

Oh wait….they all ride TT bikes because of the better aerodynamics.

I can easily go 22 and have sprinted to 33 on my road bike (flat road, no tailwind) but it’s a lot -easier- for me to go 22-33+ on my TT bike, same roads, same rider.

You don't "need" one of course, but it makes it a damn sight easier, and dare I say it more comfortable to hold over longer distances!

I can get very horizontal and super aero on my road bike, but it doesn't hold a candle to my TT bike.

Pssssssst, This thread was not started by a pro, it was started by someone who can average 18mph who wants to go 20mph, and dumping thousands into a "TT" bike purchase when they can just tweak their riding position and a few other minor things for zero investment, makes something called "sense". Look it up..........

8% of 18 is 1.44 and 12% of 18 is 2.16, so just with an improvement in riding position, which is 100% free, a rider could go from 18mph to 19.44mph-20.16mph for FREE. . Any cyclist with any experience riding while being timed, or with a speedometer on their bike knows this. And the faster you go, the more important it becomes. So just like in the Wizard of Oz, you had the ability to go 20mph all along Dorothy, you just have to adjust your riding position.

I just did a 12-mile TT at an average speed of coincidentally, 19.4xmph on the yellow Huffy ten-speed wearing cut-off jeans and a cotton t-shirt, flat pedals and sneakers, and the only reason I got that speed was by riding with my body as low as possible. If I keep training and have no health setbacks, next year I will do it in 20.4 mph, and it will be at zero cost to me except for the time training and getting used to riding in an "aero" position, not because I dumped cash into a lot of fashionable and trendy bicycles, clothing and other parts.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2d04d363ca.jpg

If you want to average 20+ mph over a triathlon on a road bike without clip-on aerobars, you're looking at 200W of output over flat-ish terrain. This is going to take training, but should be doable for most people with training on a reasonable road bike with reasonable bike clothing, at least on shorter distance triathlons. Doing that over a half-IM or full IM distance is more demanding, and a TT / Tri bike will pay dividends there; the two IMs I did on a normal road bike without clip-ons I averaged 33,7 km/hr and 33 km/hr on 200W and 199W average, respectively; the guys doing the same power on TT bikes who are of my approximate size were about 2 km/hr faster at the same races. If you find you really enjoy triathlon and want to do a lot of it, it's worth considering - there's no prize for using inferior gear and they can be found on the used market in good condition - if you just do the occasional triathlon for fun amongst other things, though, a road bike is entirely fine.

A set of clip on aerobars are a cheap way to split the difference between a road bike and a TT bike (which are, however, only allowed in non-draft legal triathlon, and where I am all triathlons shorter than half and full IM are draft legal), but you might have to adjust the fit to the point it becomes uncomfortable to use without them. I personally find a TT bike to be much more comfortable than a road bike with clip-on aerobars, which is why I don't put them on my road bike (which I also ride granfondos and such with, where you can't have clip-ons obviously, and I don't want to mess around with fit when I'm changing configurations). I find I need to have my handlebars higher to comfortably use clip-on aerobars.

Staying within the realm of "normal road bike", some things do help get more speed out of the same power; position adjustments are a good one, although they aren't entirely "free", because you're constrained by comfort - inch the position ever so lower until it becomes uncomfortable on a long ride (100km+) then inch it up a bit from there. Revisit it in time as you get more used to the position, but you'll find everyone has a limit to the position where they can perform in. Extreme positions are useful for descending, but being bent over silly is going to do you no good if you can't produce power in the position. Narrower handlebars also slightly help but can cost a bit and it's a bit of a faff to change them. Top shelf tires also help and don't cost very much over cheaper versions - don't grab winter tires or a pair of gatorskins or something. If you want a low cost (relatively) improvement, buy a good and properly sized trisuit; properly sized means you can just about zip it up - this avoids any loose fabric, wrinkles, and so on. I'm a big fan of Castelli's trisuits; at 179-180cm and 73kg I wear a size S. It stretches a bit when I put it on, but is supremely comfortable, wicks well, the pocket arrangement is great. The little things do add up to measurable differences, and don't cost very much.

Oh, and do buy proper cycling shoes and pedals and learn to ride with them; they won't improve steady state power, but they'll improve your sprint and sub 1 minute efforts, they'll improve your comfort when you find a good pair of shoes, the control is better, they're just worth it. They last an awfully long time; the cleats not so much, but if you avoid walking much on them or dragging them on the floor, they last fairly long, too. I ride my gravel / commute bike with flats because it's more convenient around town, but if I'm going to ride 100K+ I'm putting on my cycling shoes.