Im speaking specific rim brakes. Come to think of it, it is interesting to have claris, sora, tiagra, 105, ultegra, dura ace as all different caliper choices. Function is all the same, so back to my original question, other than weight do you notice a difference.

You might already be there. How many cable shifted, rim braked bikes did you see at the event you did recently?

I did not do an official survey, but the Mallorca 312 attracts mostly well-heeled serious cyclists. Only a small minority rode a bike like mine made of metal with cable shifters and rim brakes.

DA 9000 pivots = bearings. Ultegra level and below = bushings. 9000s felt smoother and quicker to me.

If you make a research on the market, you will see that rim brakes are long gone from the offer of most providers, mechanical shifting already leaved the scene in a large extend in favor of electronic shifting, 23 mm tires are gone and 25mm largely handed over to 28 mm. Whether all these are the solutions for the problems and worth the money and weight penalty - is up to you to decide. For me, those changes didn't really bring solutions, because I felt no problems to address in those "departments". But somebody who searches for a bike nowadays has no other choice, since the industry largely embraced that trend.

Depends on the needs of who you ask. By now we all know what the industry wants.

It does annoy me how pushy people can be on this topic, which is often debated endlessly on various forums along the lines of:
Rim: lighter, easier maintenance, more aero, less faulty (Froome reasoning)
Disc: heavier, more difficult maintenance, more expensive, better in the wet

Most serious crit and road racers I know have at least one of each, which has been my preference. No reason to limit one's n+1 options, especially as prices on used high end rim bikes/gear becomes increasingly attractive.

When I fly to Malibu for mountainous 8k+ ft group rides/training, it has been my experience that I'll save 20-30s for every 15-20min climb on my WW rim build. But that isn't the deciding factor... mostly comes down to ease of maintenance while traveling. But of course disc wins if/when I'm riding in questionable conditions. And I've never had issues finding a reputable mechanic if/when my hydro lines need a little help.

Overall, it is about the perspectives in analyzing, we should not mix them.
Weight variation of 0.7kg (1 kg in my case – it really feels different), marginal gains from aerodynamics and stiffness, 0.5 km/h higher speed – all these are the fancy things for which we pay more than 80% of a bike price, the rest of maximum 20% being for the basic utility of the bike. If you reduce that fancy component, you should also reduce the 80% component of price. But market evolution is the opposite: the price is much higher than the pure cost of technological upgrades and inflation, even if at least one of the main fancy components (lightweight) was compromised. And you have no choice on the market.

On the other hand, If we look from pure utility point of view: I have an old bike bought as new for trainer only. Full aluminum, 350 EUR, 21mm tires on shallow rims, Shimano Claris 3x8, 10-10.5 kg weight. 20000 km on trainer and no signs of failure. I bet, if I take it on the road, I will lose less than 1 km/h speed versus the modern and lighter bike. But it is not fancy, so I don’t mix things.

Based on my experience, R7020 105 disc brakes outperform 7403 Dura Ace rim brakes and WAY outperform 7200 Dura Ace rim brakes, but the 7403s are still pretty damn good.

Thanks for explaining.

Love this. 30yrs later and 7403s still solid

I have 6800 Ultegra prake calipers, 5800 105 brake calipers, trp 957 long reach brake calipers, some cheap tektro brake calipers, cheap Promax brake calipers, and a few various old shimano calipers from 20 years ago.

With quality cut housing and good brake shoes/pads, I certainly can't tell the difference between any of them.
I have 2 brake pads and shoes on all of them, so no stock cheap pads.

Maybe I am not the princess and the pea in this instance, but I just can't say I prefer one over another when it comes to performance.

I like my trp 957 brakes the most because they allow a 35mm road tire to be used. I have 32s on my main road bike.
So I prefer a long reach brake over the claimed better performing short stiff calipers.

I've extensively used 7900 calipers on my 2015 S-Works Roubaix for training (with both c24 9000s and Hunt Race Aero Wide wheels). Wicked stopping power and 7900s clear 32mm gp5000 rubber in the rear.

This.

You forgot about the double pivot DURA ACE BR 7700,BR 7800,BR 7900 and BR 9000 rim brakes which provided and provide phenomenal braking and above the BR 7403 still hold their equal to the 105 disc brakes if not better

they are much better rim brakes than the campy record calipers

Does that frame smell minty fresh?

I didn't forget about them. The 7200s and 7403s are the only ones I have experience with.

Campy brakes have never been designed for stopping. Campy is for winners. If you're stopping, it means you aren't winning. This is unacceptable.

That interview Froome did about disc brakes has been seriously blown up out of all proportion. If you hadn’t watched it you would think he had said that disc brakes are complete garbage. IIRC he said the actual braking performance was great, but he was having a few niggles with pad rubbing and squealing. He was also using aftermarket discs and pads from their sponsor, so not even original Shimano spec.

Has he commented more recently on this?

Froome has commented many times on this. Critics, fanboys, media and other industry folks eat up this drama as it makes for interesting conversation on the evolution of disc... if anything, this speaks to the relevance of ongoing issues (not limited to disc lockups at key points in races). Last year for Froome it was pad rub and alignment, this year slow wheel changes at Rwanda. Many others feel disc is a work in progress - 9200 is already much better than 9100 in terms of pad clearance. Squealing rotors when descending and rubbing sounds when throwing down watts have been a staple in every crit race and team group ride that I've been on in recent years... not sure I see that changing anytime soon.

Yeah, still early days for road disc. A bit of a learning curve too for maintenance, especially for pro teams managing multiple wheel sets across bikes.

But on a personal level they have been faultless for me. No rubbing or persistent squealing. Much the same as my experience with mtb disc brakes really. But I agree with you that squealing brakes are a common feature of modern group rides. I always put that down to contamination from poor or over-zealous cleaning. Maybe not bedding pads properly too. I think a bit of brake squeal in the wet is inevitable too, but I’ll take that for the performance.

And yet still some bikes are still offered with rim brakes

all my road bikes are rim brakes. However, all my mountain bikes are disc brakes