Tubeless on road bikes??
#51
Senior Member
I’ve had that on an IRC Formula Pro. I assumed it was because I had a flat which I rode on too far. Could see lots of tiny bubbles on the sidewall if I put water on it. Would be ok for a 4 hour ride but wouldn’t hold air overnight.
#52
Senior Member
The sealant being used makes a difference when it comes to sealing sidewalls. Orange seal endurance works well for that, but I'm likely to try another brand of tire if sidewall leaks are common. I've seen that with Michelin tubeless.
Likes For DaveSSS:
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,514
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Liked 8,364 Times
in
3,317 Posts
I'm still not 100% sold on road tubeless, even though I do run tubeless on one of my road bikes. For lower-pressure wider tyre applications (eg: gravel and offroad) it's great.
On the road, get the widest tyres you can so you can run lower pressure, 28-30mm. If you're a "23mm and 100psi" kind of guy, forget about it.
On the road, get the widest tyres you can so you can run lower pressure, 28-30mm. If you're a "23mm and 100psi" kind of guy, forget about it.
#54
Newbie
I have a Canyon Ultimate and I'm considering going tubeless. I have all the tools required and some stans on hand (for my mountain bike). MY rims (DT Swiss P 1800 Spline db) are tubeless ready as are my tires (Continental 5000s). I just need to buy the Stans tubeless stems.
I'm tired of fixing flats. Today I was going to go for a ride, all kitted out. And my front tire has a puncture. And my spare has a pinhole leak. And by luck I'm out of patches.
What are the disadvantages of tubeless on a road bike?
I'm tired of fixing flats. Today I was going to go for a ride, all kitted out. And my front tire has a puncture. And my spare has a pinhole leak. And by luck I'm out of patches.
What are the disadvantages of tubeless on a road bike?
#55
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,572
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,136 Times
in
2,038 Posts
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
Likes For terrymorse:
#56
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,804
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Liked 1,931 Times
in
1,162 Posts
I had a pair of Formula RBCC some years ago and rode them without any sealant at all for a bit, because I could.
Likes For chaadster:
#57
That's not a bug, that's a feature of the modern "tubeless" road bike tire. Without regular application of sealant, it leaks.
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
#58
I'm asking myself the same question. I'm about 95% road and 5% mtb and a bit of a luddite with new technologies. So despite all the hoopla, both my mtb and road bikes still have tubes. I gather that the biggest advantage is on mtb but because I don't ride it that much, I've decided to keep tubes in the mtb. I'm setting up a new 650b road bike and have built wheels with Stan's crest rims. I figured this is the bike to make the shift to tubeless since it'll be ridden a lot and it will be 650x38 tires at 50-60 psi. But I don't get the claim that you can run lower pressures because you can't get pinch flats. To me if you're lowering the pressure to the point bottoming out the tire on the rim, you're running a big risk of rim damage. There's a very fine line between pinch plats and rim damage. So unless you can somehow predict exactly the right pressure that will result in only a light bottoming out of the tire on the rim on the biggest impacts you incur, I think the lower pressure capability is marketing BS. So that leaves flat protection, rolling resistance and ride quality. Perhaps I'm just lucky but I've been running Panaracer T-servs for several years with tubes and haven't had a single flat. These are not super chunky tires. As for rolling resistance and ride quality I imagine that it's possible that a tube might add a tiny bit of stiffness to the sidewall that might add a tiny bit of resistance at a certain degree of suppleness (or reduce the suppleness at a certain resistance). I'm still on the fence but I'd like to hear if anyone has any insight on the supposed lower pressure capability.
#59
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,572
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,136 Times
in
2,038 Posts
Or the equivalent:
Requiring by design the regular application of liquid sealant is a non-issue, once you have convinced yourself that tubeless road tires are better.
Last edited by terrymorse; 10-23-23 at 11:08 AM.
#60
I top up sealant every 6 months and it takes about 5 mins. I ran tubed road tyres for about 50 years previously, so I'm well aware of their pros and cons thanks.
Last edited by PeteHski; 10-23-23 at 11:13 AM.
#61
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,572
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,136 Times
in
2,038 Posts
My personal opinion is that a tire that requires the use of liquid goop to maintain pressure is dumb technology.
#62
I'm just pointing out the practical reality for someone with no first hand experience of running tubeless tyres.
Likes For PeteHski:
#63
Senior Member
That's not a bug, that's a feature of the modern "tubeless" road bike tire. Without regular application of sealant, it leaks.
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
People prefer the lighter tires which are tubeless ready and require a bit of sealant for installation (could not add any later) over the fully tubeless but heavier tires as evidenced by the general preference for the new version.
Case in point, I still have like three on the shelf if anyone prefers tubeless which doesn't need sealant, because I prefer the new contis. There's a pair of them on what is now my son's bike which haven't seen sealant added in at least a year, running liners for the run flat capability.
Anyway, the rest of the bikes in house are all slowly being converted to tubeless with liners.
#64
Newbie
You can definitely run 38C tyres lower than 50-60 psi without any risk of rim damage unless you are extremely heavy. A quick check on the SRAM pressure calculator will give you a baseline pressure for tubed vs tubeless. Pinch flats are a much bigger risk than rim damage at low pressures.
#65
Well the difference between hooked with tubes and hooked without is less than 1 psi for me. I'd bet money that no rider would be able to discern the difference, either in ride quality or average speed. Also this is beyond the accuracy of most gauges and the typical rider's dedication to pressure. I'm curious as to why the hookless calculate a 4 psi difference. Are the walls thicker and less prone to damage? Are they less likely to "burp"?. As far as the risks, I think you're comparing a risk that results in a 15 minute roadside repair that costs a $10 tube versus a risk that leaves you stranded and with $100+ repair. Personally, I'm going to run a few more psi to ensure that my rims never bottom out on an obstacle. It just seem quite foolish to do otherwise.
#66
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 8,636
Bikes: 2023 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2022 Trek Supercaliber, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Liked 8,972 Times
in
4,204 Posts
You can definitely run 38C tyres lower than 50-60 psi without any risk of rim damage unless you are extremely heavy. A quick check on the SRAM pressure calculator will give you a baseline pressure for tubed vs tubeless. Pinch flats are a much bigger risk than rim damage at low pressures.
__________________
Platypus gravelus.
Platypus gravelus.
#67
climber has-been
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,572
Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1
Liked 4,136 Times
in
2,038 Posts
Comparing rolling resistance, the differences between the TL, TR, and standard GP5000 with latex tube are quite small, with the standard GP5000 + latex tube showing the lowest RR (per bicyclerollingresistance.com). If you're choosing tubeless for its lower rolling resistance, you're not getting it.
#68
Newbie
I can't say I've ever damaged a wheel rim, but I have had the occasional pinch flat. I think the pressure you would have to run to risk rim damage would be far lower than optimum anyway. Tubeless just takes away the risk of a pinch flat at the optimum pressure or slightly lower (for example I may run 5 psi lower in the wet). I don't have any experience with hookless rims, but I think they effectively increase the air volume and hence lower recommended pressures.
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver area (Ken Caryl Valley)
Posts: 1,803
Bikes: 2022 Moots RCS, 2014 BMC SLR01 DA Mech, 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata, Ibis Ripmo, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Levo SL, Norco Bigfoot VLT
Liked 183 Times
in
119 Posts
The hookless tubeless rims are stronger and resist impacts better. Just look at them compared to hooked rims....the edge of the hookless rim is pretty thick while the hooked rims have a really thin hook. This year I mainly had the Specialized Turbo T2/T5s on my ZIPPS and I liked them. Next year, I'll put the ENVE SES 31s on since they measure 34 and ride beautifully.
#70
I doubt there's been any accurate testing but my feeling is that the difference between a pinch flat with tubes and a damaged tubeless rim would only be a few psi. Of course there are tons of variables so even good scientific testing would only cover a few scenarios. Anyway, I have some gravelking slicks on the way so I may use tubes just to get started and then then try some sealant. I'm an amatuer framebuilder so this project is to cut the rear end off a CF road bike and widen the stays enough for 650bx38. So I need to have the tires mounted to check clearance but it will be a month or two before I have it ready to ride.
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,209
Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater
Liked 602 Times
in
454 Posts
That's not a bug, that's a feature of the modern "tubeless" road bike tire. Without regular application of sealant, it leaks.
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
To make a truly tubeless tire that doesn't leak, manufacturers would need to make them heavy, and a heavy road tire does not sell. So they trade off leak resistance against weight savings.
Likes For eduskator:
#72
I also debated this recently tube/tubeless. I opted to just run tubes for now as it's less messy and easier to maintain/change at least in my opinion. However I do like the fact that you can run lower pressure on tubeless.
#73
Newbie
If you are going to run 38C tyres at 50-60 psi then worrying about pinch flats or rim damage is academic. At what pressure have you found pinch flats to be an issue? I’ve run narrower 30C tubeless tyres at 50 psi on rough roads full of potholes with no hint of any rim damage.
#74
Newbie
The hookless tubeless rims are stronger and resist impacts better. Just look at them compared to hooked rims....the edge of the hookless rim is pretty thick while the hooked rims have a really thin hook. This year I mainly had the Specialized Turbo T2/T5s on my ZIPPS and I liked them. Next year, I'll put the ENVE SES 31s on since they measure 34 and ride beautifully.
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver area (Ken Caryl Valley)
Posts: 1,803
Bikes: 2022 Moots RCS, 2014 BMC SLR01 DA Mech, 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata, Ibis Ripmo, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Levo SL, Norco Bigfoot VLT
Liked 183 Times
in
119 Posts
I'm 175 lbs and with tubeless and my 25mm (inner width) rims, I run 55-60 PSI with 30/32 tires. I have hit potholes 2-3 times at 15ish MPH and have not hit the rim (yet) thankfully. I am sure my hookless rims will handle it better than any other hooked rim. Fortunately, we do not have many potholes where I ride, nor have I hit them at 25 MPH. This reminds me to get my winter bike setup though. While I keep my road bike handy, I often take out the "winter bike" with faster gravel tires just in case there is any slush under a bridge or something.