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Tubeless on road bikes??

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Tubeless on road bikes??

Old 10-25-23, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 3speedcliff
That's what I thought but wasn't sure. So to me the lower pressure advantage for tubeless is only really valid with the hookless rims.
It is one of the big advantages in the MTB world. That hookless section is several times thicker than the hooked section that was easy to crack. We could go down to (with wider 2.4 and 2.5 tires) to 18-22 PSI (instead of 27-32) and be fine with normal rim contact. You can still hit hard enough on a rock and be toast but most of us don't ride that crazy. The ones who do, use rim liners like Cushcore.
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Old 10-25-23, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Chandne
It is one of the big advantages in the MTB world. That hookless section is several times thicker than the hooked section that was easy to crack. We could go down to (with wider 2.4 and 2.5 tires) to 18-22 PSI (instead of 27-32) and be fine with normal rim contact. You can still hit hard enough on a rock and be toast but most of us don't ride that crazy. The ones who do, use rim liners like Cushcore.
Thanks for the info. My old mtb has tubeless ready rims but I know they're not hookless. So for me I'd need some new rims or wheels in order to really get an advantage.
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Old 10-25-23, 04:13 PM
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You really don't need to worry unless running pretty low PSI. I have never dinged a MTB hooked rim while running over 26 PSI though I generally ran 27-32. With wide hooked rims, I go lower but as the tires get fatter/wider, you use lower PSI anyway. With hookless 30 and 35 mm rims, I have yet to hit a rim edge even with 20 PSI. It usually happens when landing on a rock after a jump and I usually pick lines and know my jumps well enough to never land directly on a rock.

With road tubeless...I do it for grip and comfort. I simply do not like skinny and firm tires anymore. The wider tires have put the joy back into road cycling.
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Old 10-25-23, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS
The sealant being used makes a difference when it comes to sealing sidewalls. Orange seal endurance works well for that, but I'm likely to try another brand of tire if sidewall leaks are common. I've seen that with Michelin tubeless.
The inside of the tire was full of dried sealant. I tried cleaning it, adding sealant and re-mounting the tire, but it still slowly leaked air. OG Orange sealant is the best, but it dries quickly.
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Old 10-25-23, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
+1. Sealant creates a seal between the tire and the bead and this is important. My Schwalbe Pro One tires will always leak air (I'd say 5-10PSI/day) if seated on rims without sealant inside. In fact, it's written on the tire's box to go for a 25 minute ride immediately after adding sealant.
I was wondering if my experience was unique; I guess not. I assumed losing 5-10psi overnight was just part of the tubeless game. It's good to know that's an indicator to top off on sealant.
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Old 10-25-23, 09:05 PM
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5-10 is quite a bit. None of my bikes leak that much air and I have all nine tubeless. I do keep tubes around for a trick I'll mention later. There are two things I do to make it pretty foolproof. Once I set it up, my wheels stay tubeless for years. After I tape the rim and overlap by about 8 inches over the valve hole area, I cut a tiny X for the valve to be pushed through. Some burn a small circle with a heated punch. Both methods work well but have to be slightly smaller that the valve. The second thing I do is put a tube in for a couple of hours or overnight. That really squishes down the tape and prevents any gaps. Then I take the tube out and redo the tire. On a hot sunny day, lay the new tire out in the sun for a few hours...way easier to work with. I use Orange Seal regular and Subzero though Stan's Race is also solid for mountain bikes...a bit much for road bikes unless you use high-flow valves (and I love the SC Reserve ones).

I'm not a tubeless evangelist because I know many just like the simplicity of tubes. I get it and I don't try to convert anyone. I just have no use for tubes anymore and where/how I ride, I find tubeless to be a safer option as well.
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Old 10-26-23, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
+1. Sealant creates a seal between the tire and the bead and this is important. My Schwalbe Pro One tires will always leak air (I'd say 5-10PSI/day) if seated on rims without sealant inside. In fact, it's written on the tire's box to go for a 25 minute ride immediately after adding sealant.
For sure. I think he was also saying that the tyre walls are somewhat air permeable.
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Old 10-26-23, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Spandex_fairy
I was wondering if my experience was unique; I guess not. I assumed losing 5-10psi overnight was just part of the tubeless game. It's good to know that's an indicator to top off on sealant.
It may be the cause. However, I never top mine off. I put 2oz at the beginning of the season and it lasts until the end of the season. I use Muc-Off because it's thick and there's solid particles in it to help clog. 15 000kms so far and no flat

The initial setup is important IMO (go for a quick ride immediately after putting sealant in). It happened only once in 5 years that a tire was still leaking air after doing this. I had to deflate it completely, un-bead it and reinflate it. It stopped leaking and was good for the remainder of the season.

Last edited by eduskator; 10-26-23 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 10-26-23, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by choddo
For sure. I think he was also saying that the tyre walls are somewhat air permeable.
That's a stretch. And illogic.
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Old 10-26-23, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Spandex_fairy
I was wondering if my experience was unique; I guess not. I assumed losing 5-10psi overnight was just part of the tubeless game. It's good to know that's an indicator to top off on sealant.
I find that tubeless setups can still leak very slowly even with plenty of sealant. Not enough to be an issue though and much less than 5-10 psi per day. If I leave them sitting in the garage it takes maybe 3 months for them to go flat. So that would be about 0.5 psi per day loss on average. I think the sealant helps mainly with preventing air loss around the bead on initial setup and often you can see where the sealant has done its job around the bead. Beyond that, unless your tyres are very porous there is unlikely to be any significant air loss from lack of sealant top ups. But obviously you lose the ability to seal punctures if your sealant level is too low.
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Old 10-26-23, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
The GP5000 TL is good for comparison, as it is similar to the standard GP5000, but with a heavier casing and a butyl liner to prevent air leakage. The liner is basically an "open" inner tube fused to the inside of the tire (which explains much of the weight increase). The TL is about 85 grams heavier than the standard GP5000, but only about 50 grams lighter than the TR ("tubeless ready"), which uses a lighter casing than the TL and no butyl liner (and it's actually smaller than the TL).
Originally Posted by choddo
I think he was also saying that the tyre walls are somewhat air permeable (in modern "tubeless ready" tires).
Originally Posted by eduskator
That's a stretch. And illogic.
Although the logic of selling a "tubeless ready" tire that leaks air is debatable, the facts are not.

To reduce weight, Continental eliminated the butyl liner in their tubeless tire, making its sidewalls more air permeable. The new "tubeless ready" version requires liquid sealant to reduce the air leakage to a reasonable rate.
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Old 10-26-23, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Although the logic of selling a "tubeless ready" tire that leaks air is debatable, the facts are not.

To reduce weight, Continental eliminated the butyl liner in their tubeless tire, making its sidewalls more air permeable. The new "tubeless ready" version requires liquid sealant to reduce the air leakage to a reasonable rate.
Your tyres require a tube to hold air. These require sealant instead. It's really not a problem.
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Old 01-19-24, 01:07 PM
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I can see the sealant seeping thru and drying onto the tire sidewall; that's one method of air pressure loss. I also run Bontrager wheels with their proprietary wheel strips; that's another method for losing air. I have found that the Schwalbe Pro 1 Addix also do not conform to a desired degree of roundness; without the sealant the tire will not hold pressure beyond 1+ hrs. There's just too many factors at work. I have to pump 2-6psi every other day.
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Old 01-19-24, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Spandex_fairy
I can see the sealant seeping thru and drying onto the tire sidewall; that's one method of air pressure loss. I also run Bontrager wheels with their proprietary wheel strips; that's another method for losing air. I have found that the Schwalbe Pro 1 Addix also do not conform to a desired degree of roundness; without the sealant the tire will not hold pressure beyond 1+ hrs. There's just too many factors at work. I have to pump 2-6psi every other day.
2-6psi every other day seems pretty reasonable to me. The 3 main bikes I ride (road, gravel, and MTB - all tubeless) get topped off before every ride, and it's pretty typically in that range. It's rare for me to ride the same bike on consecutive days.
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Old 01-19-24, 01:38 PM
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I would not say that 2-6PSI every 2 day is acceptable, but hey, who am I to judge what you deem acceptable or not! Technically, it should barely lose pressure if it's installed properly...

My former tubeless and hookless setup (Giant SLR1 hookless wheels + Schwalbe Pro One TLE) lost a few PSI every week, and this was with usage.
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Old 01-19-24, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eduskator
I would not say that 2-6PSI every 2 day is acceptable, but hey, who am I to judge what you deem acceptable or not! Technically, it should barely lose pressure if it's installed properly...

My former tubeless and hookless setup (Giant SLR1 hookless wheels + Schwalbe Pro One TLE) lost a few PSI every week, and this was with usage.
As long as there aren't pressure loss issues while I'm riding, it doesn't really matter to me whether I'm topping off 1psi or 10psi before I ride. My tires get checked - and probably topped off to my preferred pressures - regardless. It's just part of my pre-ride routine.
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Old 01-19-24, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pullings
I've been running regular tubed setups on my road bikes for years.
When I upgraded my bike over the summer to a one-year-old Giant Defy Advanced, it came with tubeless tires.
I looked forward to making the tubeless switch.
Anyway, they were very reliable for the short period I have used them.
What turned me off of them was when the bike sat for a month while I was out of the country, BOTH tires deflated and unseated from rims.
No big deal, just fill up w/air and be done with it, right?
Well, not quite....I went ahead and flipped bike over onto my bike holder and several ounces of goo spread all over the frame and floor....my bad....live-and-learn
As expected my bike pumps could not seat the tires back on the rim.
However I did expect to be able to use CO2 to get things seated though. Even after I removed the valve inserts my CO2 fillers could not seat the tires!
I had to go to the bike shop just to get them filled because only a compressed air tank could do it.
Anyway, when I upgraded my wheels I chose to go with tubed setup. I have never been stranded due to tire failure or field-unrepairable-flat in 10s-of-thousands of miles of riding. If I need a compressor just to reseat a troublesome tire when totally flat I'll pass on tubeless.
Go to Harbor Freight or go online and order a pancake compressor. Get some hose and a fine nose spray nossle (sp) and you will be set for cheap.
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Old 01-19-24, 11:13 PM
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Picked up a roofing nail in the rear tubeless tire. Rode 2 miles home with the nail in place. Lost 5 lbs pressure. Plugged the tire and rode it another 2000 miles with zero leakage. That was 3 years ago. Have had zero flats or issues in 11,500 miles since then. In my old tube days, I would be fixing at least 5 flats a year. When mountain biking with tubes it was about the same. After going tubeless, zero flats, not that it cannot happen. A sidewall cut and then it’s time to put in a tube - the tube of shame.
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Old 01-19-24, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Go to Harbor Freight or go online and order a pancake compressor. Get some hose and a fine nose spray nossle (sp) and you will be set for cheap.
wait a sec, you mean to tell me that I just cant huff & puff directly into the presta valve with my own lung provided PSI & get everything back in place?

Next you'll say I need to eventually charge the Di2 with some sorta actual charger & not rely on a desk top mounted solar charging pad. Charging is charging, amirite?
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Old 01-20-24, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Troul
wait a sec, you mean to tell me that I just cant huff & puff directly into the presta valve with my own lung provided PSI & get everything back in place?

Next you'll say I need to eventually charge the Di2 with some sorta actual charger & not rely on a desk top mounted solar charging pad. Charging is charging, amirite?
Actu - ally, you only need one of them hub generator gizmos to charge your Di3 while you ride or sleep. Don’t know why the super duper tech companies haven’t figured that out. Or, something attached to the cranks or better yet, solar panels on yur hemmut or all three.

As for your lungs, cut down to one pack a day from three, and get a compressor.
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Old 01-20-24, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Actu - ally, you only need one of them hub generator gizmos to charge your Di3 while you ride or sleep. Don’t know why the super duper tech companies haven’t figured that out. Or, something attached to the cranks or better yet, solar panels on yur hemmut or all three.

As for your lungs, cut down to one pack a day from three, and get a compressor.
outstanding ideuhhz!

I thought the phlegm was a gooders natural puncture sealant fir teh tyres?
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Old 01-21-24, 03:40 AM
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From my perusal of the thread I'm not sure if the OP went tubeless. If so, I'm curious to know how it's working out.

Personally, I am not a fan of tubeless on a road bike. Give me tubes or give me death!
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Old 01-21-24, 07:04 PM
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I’d love to know too

And I am a massive fan. No going back
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Old 01-22-24, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
As long as there aren't pressure loss issues while I'm riding, it doesn't really matter to me whether I'm topping off 1psi or 10psi before I ride. My tires get checked - and probably topped off to my preferred pressures - regardless. It's just part of my pre-ride routine.
Me too! Proper pressure is key to a good ride. It just happened that I did the test last summer when I got injured and did not ride for 5-6 days.
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Old 01-22-24, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Turnin_Wrenches
From my perusal of the thread I'm not sure if the OP went tubeless. If so, I'm curious to know how it's working out.

Personally, I am not a fan of tubeless on a road bike. Give me tubes or give me death!
I've had 0 flat in my last two seasons (over 15 000kms) and I had the pleasure (bad karma for me, I know) of watching my non-tubeless friends change their tubes a lot during that timeframe. It's a no brainer for me .
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