Helmets
05-25-24 | 04:51 PM
#26
Advocatus Diaboli
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Do you feel the same way as you do about VA Tech.'s bicycle helmet testing about, for example:
1. The Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS-HLDI)?
2. Underwriter's Lab (UL Solutions)?
3. The Michelin Guide (MICHELIN Restaurants – The MICHELIN Guide)?
4. Moody's Ratings (Ratings.Moodys.com/ratings-news)?
5. Energy Star ratings (Homepage | ENERGY STAR)?
And if you answer yes to all of the above, are there any certification or ratings entity that is not selling something?
1. The Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS-HLDI)?
2. Underwriter's Lab (UL Solutions)?
3. The Michelin Guide (MICHELIN Restaurants – The MICHELIN Guide)?
4. Moody's Ratings (Ratings.Moodys.com/ratings-news)?
5. Energy Star ratings (Homepage | ENERGY STAR)?
And if you answer yes to all of the above, are there any certification or ratings entity that is not selling something?
05-25-24 | 04:59 PM
#27
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If you’re going to make an assertion, the onus is on you to demonstrate its veracity. Until then, there is nothing to suggest that the first paragraph at this site - particularly the last sentence in that paragraph - is false.
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05-25-24 | 05:45 PM
#28
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05-25-24 | 06:12 PM
#29
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If we get into the test protocols, and how these originally came out when MIPS was being introduced, there are simply in my mind, more questions than answers.
MIPS' selling point, is primarily I believe based on reducing concussion incidence from rotational impacts, with the MIPS liner providing some rotation give that can prevent that. However, then why have a test protocol that eliminates all of the pre-existing mitigators of rotational impact when testing a helmet, such as:
1. Humans (most) have hair.. this moves
2. Humans have necks, the heads on top of them bend and rotate
3. Humans have a scalp/skin -- which slides a bit over the cranium underneath
4. Humans often wear helmet liners or thermal caps for sun protection and/or insulation in cold weather.
Rather, the test protocol is strapping a helmet strongly to a somewhat tacky, hard, and bald immovable head form. Given that Va Tech at least for other sports, seems to actually test those helmets with bendable neck forms, this seems very strange. With VaTech's test methodology, it does support MIPS, as it MIPS does introduce a slip plane to a test object that has none of the normally naturally-occurring ones that aleady exist.
MIPS' selling point, is primarily I believe based on reducing concussion incidence from rotational impacts, with the MIPS liner providing some rotation give that can prevent that. However, then why have a test protocol that eliminates all of the pre-existing mitigators of rotational impact when testing a helmet, such as:
1. Humans (most) have hair.. this moves
2. Humans have necks, the heads on top of them bend and rotate
3. Humans have a scalp/skin -- which slides a bit over the cranium underneath
4. Humans often wear helmet liners or thermal caps for sun protection and/or insulation in cold weather.
Rather, the test protocol is strapping a helmet strongly to a somewhat tacky, hard, and bald immovable head form. Given that Va Tech at least for other sports, seems to actually test those helmets with bendable neck forms, this seems very strange. With VaTech's test methodology, it does support MIPS, as it MIPS does introduce a slip plane to a test object that has none of the normally naturally-occurring ones that aleady exist.
The way I use their ratings is to simply filter out all the lower rated helmets. There are now so many 5 star rated helmets to choose from at different price points that I think it makes no sense to look at any of the lower rated ones - unless you have a better source of independent crash testing which conflicts with these ratings.
05-25-24 | 10:11 PM
#30
Advocatus Diaboli
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Okay, so you have basically made up your mind that their test protocols are deliberately biased to favour MIPS and therefore you don’t believe any of their helmet ratings and it must all be a marketing scam. That’s fine, but I’m not that cynical.
The way I use their ratings is to simply filter out all the lower rated helmets. There are now so many 5 star rated helmets to choose from at different price points that I think it makes no sense to look at any of the lower rated ones - unless you have a better source of independent crash testing which conflicts with these ratings.
The way I use their ratings is to simply filter out all the lower rated helmets. There are now so many 5 star rated helmets to choose from at different price points that I think it makes no sense to look at any of the lower rated ones - unless you have a better source of independent crash testing which conflicts with these ratings.
Sure, I'd probably buy into the idea that on a relative basis, certainly you should pick a 5-star vs a 3-star and not be any worse off. I do note that they seemed to have upped their review volumes. They now label what you see as 2024 edition (can't find historical editions it seems?), and already have 233 models tested only 5 months into the year. That is impressive. Not sure when they dropped actually indicating the date of each test; I'd prefer to be able to see that.
05-25-24 | 10:20 PM
#31
Gruppetto Bob
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I always consult Virginia Tech’s ratings, just like I check out Rolling Resistance for tires. I like data to influence decisions especially when it comes to my physical and mental well-being.
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05-26-24 | 06:30 AM
#32
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RIMS got wider, which made tires plump up beyond their nominal widths. And in many cases, that is indeed faster.
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05-26-24 | 08:33 AM
#33
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I don't see how or why methodology couldn't be improved. Especially as it now seems that VaTech presents yearly editions of their reviews. They could switchover to better testing that better emulates real human head/neck forms. Yes, you remove possibility of seeing apples-apples comparisons of current products vs yesteryear's, but so be it. I do find it odd, if they still have the data, that I can't look at their scored result of a helmet I bought 2-3 years ago. Maybe they have an archive section I haven't located yet?
05-26-24 | 11:46 AM
#34
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05-29-24 | 10:34 AM
#35
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OK... Late getting back to this thread... I think we need a distinction between Road/Hybred/Mountain bike helmet and e-bike helmet. Some of the e-bikes I have seen around here are scooting around at near 30 MPH. 30 MPH needs a different type helmet then a bicycle helmet.
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05-29-24 | 10:42 AM
#36
Facts just confuse people
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I'm not sure why a e-bike needs a different helmet for >30mph. Wouldn't that mean those of us on regular bikes going faster than 30mph need a different helmet?
05-30-24 | 06:18 AM
#37
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OK... Late getting back to this thread... I think we need a distinction between Road/Hybred/Mountain bike helmet and e-bike helmet. Some of the e-bikes I have seen around here are scooting around at near 30 MPH. 30 MPH needs a different type helmet then a bicycle helmet.
05-30-24 | 06:27 AM
#38
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I don't see how or why methodology couldn't be improved. Especially as it now seems that VaTech presents yearly editions of their reviews. They could switchover to better testing that better emulates real human head/neck forms. Yes, you remove possibility of seeing apples-apples comparisons of current products vs yesteryear's, but so be it. I do find it odd, if they still have the data, that I can't look at their scored result of a helmet I bought 2-3 years ago. Maybe they have an archive section I haven't located yet?
05-30-24 | 06:36 AM
#39
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Late to the thread but the university is a non profit institution. It is not the same as an organization that has been created or developed and charges a fee to use their logo. Even if VA Tech charges, those fees (just call it profit) go back into the research and not into the pockets of their researchers.
05-30-24 | 07:38 AM
#40
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Bear in mind that they don't test every single helmet -- so your helmet may not be listed because it wasn't tested.
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05-30-24 | 04:30 PM
#42
Advocatus Diaboli
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https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/bicyc...t-ratings.html
I realize they don't test all helmets or brands. They rely on corporate donations (monetary or product). While the reviews aren't biased by intent, I do wonder if what they review is based on who sends them product to review?
05-30-24 | 04:33 PM
#43
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Late to the thread but the university is a non profit institution. It is not the same as an organization that has been created or developed and charges a fee to use their logo. Even if VA Tech charges, those fees (just call it profit) go back into the research and not into the pockets of their researchers.
05-30-24 | 04:36 PM
#44
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Their test methodology may well evolve and improve. But since it is probably the best independent information currently available freely I’m just going to stick to their 5-star rated helmets which also meet my other personal preferences ie fit, weight, ventilation and appearance. FWIW I currently have a Lazer G1 MIPS. Ultra-light, great ventilation, 5-star rating, good fit system and doesn’t look like a mushroom. Price was quite reasonable too on sale.
05-30-24 | 04:37 PM
#45
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I just typed in my helmet’s brand and model name in the search box, and it showed up – even though it’s been replaced by about three updated versions since I bought it.
Provide evidence or stop making such assertions. As it is, you are just making stuff up and posting it to the Internet.
Provide evidence or stop making such assertions. As it is, you are just making stuff up and posting it to the Internet.
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05-30-24 | 04:51 PM
#46
Advocatus Diaboli
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I just typed in my helmet’s brand and model name in the search box, and it showed up – even though it’s been replaced by about three updated versions since I bought it.
Provide evidence or stop making such assertions. As it is, you are just making stuff up and posting it to the Internet.
Provide evidence or stop making such assertions. As it is, you are just making stuff up and posting it to the Internet.
There's the below. Somewhere buried in other donation instructions, I think i originally found them on the U's website elsewhere, it mentioned ability to accept product donations as well. I'm not going to search again right now though.
05-30-24 | 05:11 PM
#47
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I can find my helmet model with the search, but there's nothing to tell me which year's model it is (eg. Bell Z20 MIPS). So if they call their reviews the "2024 Edition", I assume it's what they're selling this year.
There's the below. Somewhere buried in other donation instructions, I think i originally found them on the U's website elsewhere, it mentioned ability to accept product donations as well. I'm not going to search again right now though.
There's the below. Somewhere buried in other donation instructions, I think i originally found them on the U's website elsewhere, it mentioned ability to accept product donations as well. I'm not going to search again right now though.
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05-30-24 | 05:11 PM
#48
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Clearly this thread is a representation of your overall beliefs, which I respect. Because of that, there's no hope for this discussion.
05-30-24 | 05:24 PM
#49
Advocatus Diaboli
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I guess you can call them beliefs, but honestly I just consider what I've said the result of a bit of research, common sense, and a wee bit of critical thought. These calls to back up what I'm saying, which I attempt to do, are met for some reason with just more and more challenges. Not sure exactly why.
