Fastfwd

I don't mean racing at a pro level. Just racing and hoping to finish at a better position than last. I don't mind not being in the top 3. But I definitely want to be fit enough to finish before last.

Is 30km/h - 18mph a good average speed? What distance are usual races?

jfmckenna

Cat 5 distances are usually around 30 miles. Speed will be determined by the field so measuring your solo averages is not really helpful to a point. That is to say if you average 12 mph over 30 miles solo then you have some serious work to do where as if you are at 17 - 20 then your in the ball park. But it's really a bad tool to measure standards by given terraine wind speed ect...

merlinextraligh

It's really hard to answer this question. In part because the way people calculate average speed, and difference in terrain. Also racing is a lot more about going fast for short periods and recovering, than it is about high average speed. you can have the ability to time trial at 23mph for a long way, but if you can't accelerate to the low 30's for short periods you're off the back.
Rather than worry about your average speed, find the local training rides, where the racers and the fast recreational riders train. Go out and do those training rides. When you can finish with the group, or at least hang for a decent distance, then try a Cat 5 race.

EURO

Can you close a 10 metre gap at 30mph? Can you accelerate out of a 90 degree corner to 25 mph? If not, you'll probably get dropped. Hanging on in the bunch is possible for most riders. The skill is holding a wheel.

MrCjolsen

That's a very good question. Unfortunately, I don't have the answer because I don't really race. I've done a couple of triathlons where my average was 19 mph for 14 miles and I had a lot of people passing me, and I passed quite a few myself. I had also swam 1000 meters just before getting on the bike and had the run to think about.

A local racing team here does a weekly time trial series where the median speed seems to be about 22-23 for a 10 mile time trial. The high and low range is about 18 to 27 mph. These time trials are open to anyone who wants to come and the course is about as flat as flat can get.

As I said, it's a really good question. I'm curious about the answer myself. A better way to phrase it, however, might be what's usually the average speed in a peloton of cat. 5 racers.

Fastfwd

There is obviously a lot more to racing than just average speed. I think I'll try to find a club to ride with when springtime comes(we have snow here). If I seem to be fast enough maybe I'll try a few timed events first and if I ever feel confident enough I'll move on to races.

Corsaire

I you can't do at least (per se) 21-25 mph average plus the ability to cover sudden surges of speeds like Euro said, you might as well not compete in a CAT 5 at all, you'll get drop big time.
Corsaire

merlinextraligh

In my experience the answer is about 25mph average. But this really doesn't tell you much. Typical Cat 5 race: Off the gun the race accelerates to about 30mph in the first 500 yards. the race stays about 28-30mph for the first couple of laps. you're doing 32mph after turns to close gaps. This goes on for about 10 minutes. No one gets away, then all of the sudden when you think you're going to die, the race suddenly slows to 17 mph. It then goes along for a lap at 17 mph. Then some one, who has no prayer of ever staying away jumps off the front accelrating up to 30 or so, Then 10 guys individually try to run the first guy down with no one working together and the whole peloton is shattered all over the road. eventually 10-15 guys group up, and work together at 25 or so for a while. (by the way the guy who attacked is now caught and off the back and abndons next lap.) Then the group slows back to 15 or so, before the last lap, at which time all hell brakes lose again. so the 25 mph average doesn't tell you much.

StanSeven

That's a good way to get started. Hang in with the faster members on rides. Often people will test each other, try sprints at times, get in groups that go faster than the pack of other riders, etc. If you can hang in with the quicker ones there, the next step is a race.

Corsaire

But, at least, it's some reference, a benchmark to go by: if you know you can do 25 mph average for a given distance, say 25 or 30 miles, at least you'll know you could be IN the race.

Corsaire

simplyred

Racing is relative...
Me racing some 10 yr old can be a race if we consent to it...

Most racers will tell you - the fastest rider doesn't always win - which is relatively true.
It's really a mix of tactician, negotiator, and grit.

I could bust out at 35 kph for hrs - but if I can't handle the ebb and flow of a pack - I'm toast... they go UP and DOWN speeds - essentially intervals - which wears riders down..

Get a decent engine [~base of 1000 miles] - start learning some tactics from these forums and get out and race!!

Good Luck
-simplyred

TCR

First, you can't compare an 18mph avg speed on a solo ride to actual race avg speeds. They're two completely different animals. I'll go out all the time for a solo ride, do 20 to 40 miles, and end up with an 18mph avg. I guess that's pretty good but it's not racing. Average speeds in a race can go way up because you'll be in a pack getting sucked along most of the time.

I just did a CAT4, .9 mile, four corner course with a very slight rise on part of the course. It was supposed to be a 40 minute crit but ended up closer to 32 - we averaged an even 25.0mph at the end. Nobody was able to break away and stay away. If you can smoothly go around a corner at 25mph while in a pack and be able to cover a few surges here and there then there's no problem surviving on this course. Now a circuit race with a hill or a road race with several hills are completely different stories.

Your best bet is to get out there and ride with groups (local bike club) to get used to group riding, drafting, pacelines, etc. Then find a training ride with some CAT3 & 4's and ride with them. If you can hang with them for 20 to 30 miles you're definetly ready to tackle CAT 5's.

SteveAZ

I'm a new racer, just did my first race last week. Didn't do too bad, here is my experience/stats for your comparison.

I have about 4200 miles in my legs in the last 6 months when I took up cycling.

Flat land with a couple small hills I can average 21-22 for about 25 miles solo. (when I say average, that is what my average says at the end of the ride, not what I look down and see at various points in the ride)

Group rides I do pretty well on the flats, leave a bit to be desired on longer climbs, and can suck a mean wheel

My first race was a crit. The distance turned out to be 14.5 miles. The average speed was 24.3. The max speed was 30.5. Lots of break aways and the speed was constantly varying.

The race merlin speaks of would kick my arse, but I also think it would have kicked most of the people's butts in the race I was in. The lead pack only consisted of 10 of the original 50 starters.

I'll try and get my second race video done with more of an overall feel for how the entire race goes as soon as I can.

Steve

bbattle

"At what speed and over what distance can you begin to consider racing?"


When you can snatch the pebble from my hand, it is time for you to race.

OC Roadie

LOL, That sums it up pretty well

ovoleg

Have you been elbowed before? Pushed?

Well, if you can take 10-15 elbows and a few pushes, you should be ready.

Also, if you have to have a egotistical, elitist and asinine attitude of Socalcycling--You can ride with him.

Try it out, some like it and some dont. I'd say that you should try it and see where you are at(even if you get last). Good luck and try not to fall

OC Roadie

What race did you get elbowed and pushed so much at? Most of the Cat 4 and 5 racing I've done, everyone's too nervous to get that close to each other. I think in the last season, I may have had contact twice with other riders, and both times it was accidental. I don't think the pushing, shoving, elbowing and leaning for position really become a factor until you're riding in the P/1/2/3's. Maybe I just race with a bunch of "softies".

EURO

I definitely agree that to be a succesful crit rider, you need to be tough and arrogant. You have to have a killer instinct and a tough demeanour, otherwise you are going to loose position. The pro who rides in my local circuit races is a complete arse, hence his success. He'd happily punch someone out who got in his way, and hence he tends to get treated with respect. This is pretty much what Lance and Hinault and Anquetil did.

OC Roadie

True, but in Cat 5 crits??

Hipcycler

Forget about speed for now.
Ask yourself this question and answer it here too...

"Why do I want to race?"

Well?

I start with that because I went through last year what you are going through now.
The answer to the question came down to one thing really....Even if it was once....just once....I wanted to feel the rush of the morning of a race....I wanted to feel the nerves at the starting line waiting....I wanted to get the adrenaline rush from the start....I wanted to know what it felt like to be in a pack of riders.....in short, I wanted to be "a racer" just once.

My first race was a road race of 25 miles. Conditions were terrible. I fell off the back within the first mile and rode the thing all by myself into a howling wind in 35-degree temps. I finished 78th out of 88 riders. I was proud. Why? Because I was a racer.

See, it's not really all about how fast or how long. It certainly CAN be if that's what you want. But for me, it was the experience. I tired a time trial later in the summer and blew up...hated it....will never do it again. But at least I crossed trying a time trial off my cycling 'to-do' list.

If you;re curious....heck...go for it. Remember there are three types of racing too....crits, road, and TT's....each have their own characteristics.

2Rodies

This is THE best way to get a handle on where you are relative to other Cat 5 and higher racers. More importantly riding in group like this will help you get used to what it feels like to race. Riding in a fast group can be pretty hair raising if you've never done it before. Better to find this out on a shop ride than in a race.

On my first team the cat 1/2 guys took all us newbies out to a parking lot and did bumping drills with us. We had tennis shoes on so we weren't clipped in. We would ride along and they would lean on us and elbow us a bit just so it wouldn't be a surprise when it happened in a race. From my experience the two most dangerous times in any race are the first 10-15 min and the last 10-15 min. Nerves at the beginning and exhaustion at the end. In a 5's race the most dangerous guys are the ones who have the strength to be there at the end but lack the bike handling skills and the experience to know how to deal with a sprint.

bvfrompc

[QUOTE=Fastfwd]But I definitely want to be fit enough to finish before last.QUOTE]

If everyone thought this way, there would be one guy in the race. Everyone else would progressively drop out as the person behind them quit because they didn't want to be last.

LA got shelled in his first pro race, finished DFL a half hour behind everybody, in the rain.

Somone is last in every race, if your afraid it might be you and that concerns you to the point of not doing the race becuase of it, don't think about racing, you don't have the right mentality for it anyhow.

DerekU2

That's the boat I'm in this year. I want to do it - at least once - because I love the rush of adrenaline I get from competing. I love the nerves. I love the thrill of winning, and probably more importantly for this endeavor, I'm able to appreciate the suffering that comes with a humiliating defeat

I'm going to give racing a shot this year. I'm nowhere near fast enough to win, or experienced enough to plow through a 90 degree turn at 25mph in a pack, but I just don't care right now. I just want to get a good mileage base and get out there and have fun. I'll be happy if I finish anywhere above last

EURO

I don't know about USCF Cat 5 crits, but BCF Cat 4's in the UK are like this.

SteveAZ

The Cat5 and Cat 4/5 30+ crits I did, nobody ever even touched me. No smack talk, a few squirely riders (cause of one crash), and overall, I'd say it was a great experience. As a matter of fact, I was amazed how spread out the field was when I watched the video (see signature).

That saying...."Just Do IT", there's some merit to that. There will always be those that want to and those that have. The "want to's" later become the "I wish I had's", don't be one of those guys. Maybe you get dropped off the back, so what, at least now you know what it's like to race