spunky

But are you spinning efficiently at that cadence?
It doesn't do alot of good if you're bouncing all over the place wasting energy.

Personally, I think it's valuable to learn to ride at many different cadences.
It gives you a bigger toolbox to work from.
My average cadence is around 90-100 rpms, but I can comfortably spin at 120 for extended periods and I max out at 140 before I get bouncy.
But I find that I'm actually the most efficient when time trialing in bigger gears around 75-80 rpms.
Here's an interesting read on the "perfect cadence." https://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4011

bmclaughlin807

Well, what with all the EPO, steroids, and other drugs out there for boosting performance, and then the talk of nano-robots that could go in and build up your muscles, you never know.... Better to be prepared now than have all those cycle computers out there become obsolete, right?

Paulus

Efficiently? Absolutely not. Suprisingly I wasn't bouncing but there was no real power there. More interesting as a test of how fast you can spin. Note I was using 30/25 gearing (triple). I do prefer spinning at a highish cadence though and will often run close to 110rpm instead of the 90rpm most people use.

LittleGinseng 

+1

Once you hit your target speed using the gear calculator, you'll automatically be in your target cadence.

Mothra

Yeah, kinda sort of. There's actually a continuous range between burning 100% fat to burning 100% glycogen (carbs) and it's related to your max muscle-strength and LT-lactate threshold. LT is actually a muscular-force point, not heart-rate, but it can be correlated if you keep certain things like speed & cadence constant. The LT point is where your muscles go from aerobic glycolysis go anaerobic fermentation for energy. The differences in efficiency is extreme, aerobic generates 38-ATP while anaerobic makes only 2-ATP. The LT point is usually 50-75% of max-exertion 1-rep force.

Here's what happens when you're riding, if you're cruising along at 10mph, pushing on the pedals with something like just 20-lbs of force, you're gonna be far away from LT and burning mostly fats. You also won't be feeling any strain on your muscles or knees at all.

Let's say you increase your speed to 20mph by pushing 90% of your maximum force at 80rpms. You're over your LT, your muscles will ache and get sore and you won't be able to keep it up for long. You'll also be burning 100% glycogen as well and will bonk in about 2-hours.

Then you shift down two or three gears at the same speed, 20mph, but spin 100rpms instead. Working through the physics equation of POWER = (force*distance)/time, you'll find that you can generate the exact same power as before to go 20mph, but you'll only need to be pushing on the pedals at 68% of your maximum strength instead. This amount of pedal-force is well below your max and slightly below your LT, so the muscles will be much more efficient and burn a mix of fats & carbs. Probably 30% fat & 70% carbs depending upon your fitness.

So overall, using two to three gears lower and spinning at 100rpms at the same 20mph speed will lower the stress on your knees by 25%, increase your muscle's efficiency by pushing them at a lower-percentage of their max, and you'll be able to ride that same speed for much longer. Endurance will also increase because you're burning more fat and you'll be able to ride 3 hours before bonking instead of just two.

Note that riding at higher RPMs at the same speed tends to use more oxygen. But that's not of a big concern because both of those are below your VO2-max. It's the muscle's LT that you're really worried about and keeping them as far below LT as possible for any given speed will give you much more efficiency and lower muscle-fatigue, allowing you to go further at that speed.

botto 

you consider a cadence of 90-95 fast?

jock

90-95rpm can be considered fast if the subject is normally touring at 60-70rpm. It's horses for courses, not a Lance-fest. Everyone's natural cadence is different, some fast, some slow, and it will vary depending on the prevailing conditions (flat, climbing, headwind, temp, humidity, etc). And for those who are willing to put in the time and effort, that natural cadence can be adapted for a new task with training (eg. to convert a strong road rider to a track pursuiter).

The 'perfect cadence' is actually your natural cadence. Most bike riders don't even know what their natural cadence is. Mine's 97rpm, what's your's? How do you find it? At what revs does your action start to break down? Does action breakdown really mean you are no longer able to deliver power to the pedals? Does it mean you can't spin faster? Apologies, for I digress... back to the subject matter at hand:

Is it important for everyone to strive for those "incredible" LA cadences of 120rpm? Of course not. It's far more important for everyone to strive for the cadence range which suits their bioligical makup, specifically the way in which their muscles burn fuel. For some ppl high cadences can be just as taxing as low cadences are at the same speed for others just because of the way their muscles convert energy stores and oxygen into work. Your coach will be able to work out your optimal cadence range with one or two weeks of ride information if they are worth the money you are paying them.

'Scientific studies' on small subject groups (<1000) of ill-defined fitness ("well trained athletes" - WTF is that?) that say one thing or another about just about anything are becoming a bore. Why? Because they shoehorn every athlete into a generalisation, and they allow charletans like RFS to jump on a bandwagon, preach rubbish with impunity, and profit from people's naivity.

If it's any consolation, juniors as young as 10 in our club spin at over 200rpm for long periods of time. When they are older and they're muscle mass increases they will find it hard to keep up more than 199rpm for long periods of time.

krazyderek

Spinning is a little easier on your legs and shifts some of that work to your lungs and cardio system. Lance had a huge heart so he could pump more O2 to his muscles and he concentrated on aerobic efficiecy quite a bit after cancer. Your cardio (lungs) can also recover quite a bit faster then your legs can. This is why you can see lance dancing up the mountain stages in those videos, he bridges a gap, rests for 20 seconds, then he's off again. I'm sure someone else explained the science and details behind this alot better then me

botto 

around 108.

jock

You're not very good at this game are you Botto?

smoke

i'm also a masher. 80 rpm is about normal for me. and i'll time trial a few rpm below that. i've tried getting my cadence higher, but it just doesn't seem to work for me. but i've found that i climb faster by getting into a smaller gear and spinning up hills than i did when i'd leave it in a big gear and mash my way up. go figure

botto 

i'd have to be interested in playing it first

DrPete 

I had a VDO for a while, the C2DS, and the wireless transmitter was worthless. I just had a really bad experience with it, and I'm quite sure I set everything up as the instructions stated.

DrPete

NomadVW 

I remember last year watching a triathlon that I was volunteering at. I couldn't believe how fast they were spinning. At the time, I kept around 90ish. Now, if I go down to 90 - my legs feel it something fierce. I spin right at 100rpm on pace, and no lower than 95. If I'm in a longer pull, it climbs up to around 105. I can go much longer at same pace now with the higher cadence. I worked on it in spinning classes and on the rollers.

VW

PS > Astrale8 +1

Tom Stormcrowe

Obviously, you've never seen me coming down a hill!

nova

Just wait till you start to see less and less of a need for the big ring lol.

I avarage 110 for long distances and on a 11 mile ride just now i had a ararage of 105. One time just to see what i could do as a max i gave it all i had on a down hill in lowest gear and flipped my topeak cadence. Im asuming its got a max of 200. Last i dared look on that run i seen 192. I didnt hold that high cadence for very long maybe 30 secounds at most. That was at the end of last season trying right after i got my comp i coudl only muster maybe 120s for less time. Now im not even shocked to look at my max cadence and see 128 130 with avarage over all in low 100s

Once you get to a high avarage cadence its a whole other ball of wax. Like others have said its easyer on the knees because your not stressing the joints. Your avarage speed top speed etc all go up.

godspiral

I noticed they are all pretty expensive. If you know your speed, and your gears, you can calculate your precise cadence.

nova

here you go
this is the one i bought and the ebay store i bought from. had the comp in my hands in 4 days
https://cgi.ebay.com/TOPEAK-COMP-140-...QQcmdZViewItem

Its a nice little unit unclips from the mount max cadence current avarage same for speed. I think it has a max cadence of 200 before it flips and represents the cadence via flasshign numbers.

Seems to be quite reliable as well. I got mine about a month after i started riding last year (put 800ish miles on it last year and little over 400 this year.)

Give it a try its a great little comp for the money.

It is a wired unit obviously.

ericgu

Well, riding at a higher cadence will shift the load from your skeletal muscles to your heart muscles, so that's part of the effect you're seeing. You also aren't as efficient at higher cadences.

I suggest doing fast pedal intervals. Make sure you're warmed up first. Start with intervals 1:30 in length. Slowly increase your cadence for the first minute, making sure you aren't bouncing, and then hold it for the remainder of the interval. Do it with a low enough gearing so that your heartrate isn't going too high.

Recover at a comfortable rate for the same amount of time as the interval. Repeat 4 times. Do this a couple times a week, and increase the interval time to 2 minutes as you get more used to it.

I did that this spring. I used to spend most of my time at about 85 RPM, and got uncomfortable at 105 RPM or so. Now I can easily ride for 15 minutes at 110-115 RPM, and saw 143 RPM for 15 seconds or so on a downhill tempo interval last week.

While I do find it useful to shift the load to my heart, I think getting a smoother pedal stroke that uses more muscles is the real benefit.

godspiral

Gontchar (winner of last tdf time trial by over 1 minute) thinks you're all *******

-VELOCITY-

I personally use the Cateye Astrale 8. It's really good. I got no complaints. This morning I tried picking up my cadence for longer intervals. It still feels ackward. A couple of times I went over 100 just to get the feel. But when I wasn't really pedaling hard I started to bounce on the saddle. I guess I gotta give it a little more time to get used to it. One thing I noticed was the ability to pick up my pace easier when I was between 90 and 95 and wanted to take it to 100+. However I didn't have my HRM on but it felt like my heart was gonna pop out of my chest.

bmclaughlin807

I've hit 140 rpm for a short stretch, but then... I've got *GASP* platform pedals! I'm not currently working on increasing my cadence, as it is very difficult to sustain 110 or more with platforms. I'll have to wait a month or so till finances allow me to get my clipless pedals and shoes.

sportbiker

The way it was described to me is you expend a fixed amount of energy to get from point A to point B. Cadence determines how much of that energy is supplied by the legs and how much is supplied by the cardio system. High cadences mean high cardio outputs with lower leg outputs, and mashing means high leg outputs with low cardio outputs. The advantage to high cadences is that your cardio system will last a lot longer than your leg systems, and once cardio is kaput you still have your legs to draw upon; if you burn through your legs first, the best cardio system in the world can't come to the rescue.

nova

Thats more than a little scary
145 on plats is damn fast if your doing 100s on plats your prob gona be doing 110 120 on clipless in a realy short period of time.

WorldPax

I got to thinking where my cadence came from and came to the conclusion that muscle memory never forgets. In my teen years I lived on my BMX-Freestyle bike. Was even sponsored by SE bicycles for a couple years. 18 years later I think my body remembers that spin you have to maintain on a single-speed bike.

Want to increase your spin, steal the kids bike out of the garage and take it for a ride.