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what's so great about lugs?

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what's so great about lugs?

Old 12-23-07, 09:40 PM
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Tacfarinas
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what's so great about lugs?

Hi,

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious. Other than looking sort of nice (though I think maybe I spend too much time looking at bike as it is) are they inherently better than welds? If so, why?
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Old 12-23-07, 09:44 PM
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Its easier to replace damaged sections of frame if you have lugs.
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Old 12-23-07, 10:13 PM
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They're dead classy an harken back to a time of gentleman velocipedists in tweed with a pipe and baguettes slid underneath their brake cables.
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Old 12-23-07, 10:18 PM
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They're purrrrty.
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Old 12-23-07, 10:44 PM
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At the risk of being flamed...brazing lugs is easier than TIG welding. Imperfections of the miter can also be covered with a lug. With a TIG weld, what you see is what you get. So miters must be precise, and the welder must have extremely good eye hand coordination. Lugs also limit the geometries to that offered by the lug manufacturers. But hey, they look cool.
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Old 12-23-07, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tacfarinas View Post
Hi,

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious. Other than looking sort of nice (though I think maybe I spend too much time looking at bike as it is) are they inherently better than welds? If so, why?
It's a style that some people prefer...

I'm sure someone will argue the point, but my stance is that they are not inherently "better", whatever you take that to mean.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:05 PM
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In the Old Days a frame with lugs was a sure sign that the frame was of a higher quality. I disagree with PDXjeff. Especially if you consider the work that goes into making the lugs. ATMO a lugged frame will require more skill than a TIG frame.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:20 PM
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I'd imagine that, using the same tubes, lugged frames would be slightly heavier than TIG-welded because the area around the lugs has some areas of double thickness.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:30 PM
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Well, LOOK claims that they can "fine tune" the ride characteristics of a frame by using lugs. I dunno if I believe that, but I love my LOOK.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:34 PM
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Tig is harder than you would think. Alot of coordination involved (i take a class) That said, Casting is also hard to get right.
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Old 12-23-07, 11:35 PM
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I much prefer a smooth fillet brazing over 99% of all lugs.
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Old 12-24-07, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacfarinas View Post
Hi,

?
I assume you're talking about steel?

This article is very biased (VERY pro lugged steel), but it's entertaining and has some good info

https://www.henryjames.com/faq.html

there's more info out there if you wanna Google

The diehards say that lugs are stronger (I tend to agree), but the main benefit is easier repairs
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Old 12-24-07, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacfarinas View Post
Hi,

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious. Other than looking sort of nice (though I think maybe I spend too much time looking at bike as it is) are they inherently better than welds? If so, why?
In the early days you couldn't weld the tubes so you had to braze. As tubing mfg's started making tubing that could be easily welded without loosing it's strength, welding became more common.

A properly welded joint is very very strong. It's also very very boring to look at.


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Old 12-24-07, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PDXJeff View Post
At the risk of being flamed...brazing lugs is easier than TIG welding. Imperfections of the miter can also be covered with a lug. With a TIG weld, what you see is what you get. So miters must be precise, and the welder must have extremely good eye hand coordination. Lugs also limit the geometries to that offered by the lug manufacturers. But hey, they look cool.
You're comparing a poor quality lug to a really good TIG bead and saying the lug is easier to do than the other. Well yeah, but most TIG'd frames don't have very nice beads and the skill put into their production is no greater than mass produced brazed frames. Also, if it were actually easier to braze lugs then why are there so few mass produced lugged frames?

Brazing lugs is actually far more time consuming than TIG welding, and every bit as much skill is required to make a strong joint.
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Old 12-24-07, 08:10 AM
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There's more than just steel lugged out there -

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Old 12-24-07, 08:15 AM
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There's nothing "inherently" better about lugs. However, there are a handful of bicycle frames which just so happen to be lugged that are considered the absolute top of their class. Make of that what you will.
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Old 12-24-07, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacfarinas View Post
Hi,

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just curious. Other than looking sort of nice (though I think maybe I spend too much time looking at bike as it is) are they inherently better than welds? If so, why?
Better than Welds? For regular or old-style steel, I'd say yes. Most steel frames that aren't lugged are brazed, which means glued-with-another-metal(silver or brass). "Electro-forged" Schwinns were welded. Some of the newer steel tubing can be TIG-welded, like my Bianchi San Jose's double-butted chro-moly frame.

Lugs look cool, strengthen the joint, stiffen the frame?, and look cool.

Have you ever soldered copper tubing together? That same process is done with lugged frames. Much harder to do well with the bike tubing, of course.

A downside with lugs is they determine the geometry of the frame by their angles. If you need/want something a bit different, you either have new lugs designed and cast($$$) or go another route.
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Old 12-24-07, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Treefox View Post
There's more than just steel lugged out there
Yeah, and as Cypress eluded, there's more than just metal lugs. Arguably one of the nicest racing frames in the world:



Another French bike:



Then there are the badass customs:


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Old 12-24-07, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ivegotabike View Post
Tig is harder than you would think. Alot of coordination involved (i take a class) That said, Casting is also hard to get right.
When you factor the task of TIG welding, you must also compare with what went into the development of the lugs - therein lies art as well.
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Old 12-24-07, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
There's nothing "inherently" better about lugs. However, there are a handful of bicycle frames which just so happen to be lugged that are considered the absolute top of their class. Make of that what you will.
Even some top of the line carbon uses lugs.
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Old 12-24-07, 11:21 AM
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The Raleigh Techniums used steel lugs with aluminum tubing. I believe in the 70's the first "carbon" bikes had carbon tubing with steel lugs.

And the aluminum lugged, aluminum tubing frames date back to the 30's.
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Old 12-24-07, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Tacfarinas View Post
what's so great about lugs?
aesthetics.

nothing else of genuine relevance.
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Old 12-24-07, 11:52 AM
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Lugs rool!

 
Old 12-24-07, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PDXJeff View Post
At the risk of being flamed...brazing lugs is easier than TIG welding. Imperfections of the miter can also be covered with a lug. With a TIG weld, what you see is what you get. So miters must be precise, and the welder must have extremely good eye hand coordination. Lugs also limit the geometries to that offered by the lug manufacturers. But hey, they look cool.
So in essence what you just said, removing the lug comparison is that. A nicely built frame is a nice frame, a badly built frame is bad.

K thx capt. obvious.
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Old 12-24-07, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
aesthetics.

nothing else of genuine relevance.
Fail
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